What would be the worst way to study Chinese?

[simonlaing]

Hi All,

One way of innovating is figuring our what doesn't work and taking the opposite of that .

So what would be the most counter productive way of learning Chinese? Or what would be the way which you could learn Chinese eventually but it would take the longest and would be the least useful in allowing you to use the Chinese you knew in a meaningful way.

I have added a poll.

I will let the poll speak to my stereotypes on what doesn't work.

Thanks,

Simon:)

Edited February 17, 2009 at 06:00 AM by simonlaing

[imron]

So what would be the most counter productive way of learning Chinese?

Spending all your time on Internet forums related to learning Chinese, rather than actually doing any learning Edited February 17, 2009 at 06:12 AM by imron
poll wasn't there the first time.

[gougou]

I chose the last option; I've been doing that for five years and I'm not getting anywhere. Probably should have tried the Cantonese approach instead. Ah, the beauty of hindsight.

[roddy]

Obsessing over the best method and not just getting on with it. It's only a language after all.

[mowmow]

er,if you often chat with the native chinese speakers,it will benifit you a lot:mrgreen:

[Lu]

The worst way would be something like this:

You've never studied another language before, but you've heard China has the future, so you decide to study Chinese. You talk about this with all your friends and family for several weeks/months. Eventually, you buy a second-hand book titled Teach yourself Chinese in 5 Easy Lessons!!! or something similar. You take a look at the first chapter and think: this is easy! You proceed to do the dishes, then call a friend, and forget all about the book. You look at it again two weeks later, and actually sit down to learn the first chapter. You decide to skip the tones for now, they're too difficult (or: you study the explanation a bit and then teach yourself the tones). But the weeks after that, you're busy, so it's almost a month before you pick up the book again.

At some point, you finish the book, and declare yourself fluent in Chinese. Next time you eat out at a Chinese restaurant, you tell the waitress you learned Chinese and say Ni hao! She praises your excellent Chinese. You congratulate yourself on your great language learning skills.

Only learning Cantonese pinyin wouldn't even be so bad, provided you pay close attention to pronounciation and tones, and provided that Cantonese is what you want to learn.

[Hofmann]

The worst way is half-learning an unpopular/unorthodox romanization system and memorizing a list of common phrases without regarding tones or thinking about the phrases.

Here is what works. It may not be the best, but I've done this: Get an outline of Chinese grammar that uses Chinese characters. Buy a beginners' textbook that uses a popular romanization system and work through it. Then go online, armed with a popup translator, and read real stuff. Unknown vocabulary will pop up in the translator. Unknown grammar can usually be found in the outline.

[simonlaing]

Hey Lu,

Nice post. I think a lot of people think learning Chinese can come through osmosis. I new a significant number of non-Chinese major students who came for a semester or a year but went to 2 classes a week missed all their 8 am classes and spent most of the time at the bar. The student would boast of the amount of "bar Chinese" that they knew.

I also think that it takes much longer to learn just speaking and listening separately and then later learn reading and writing than learning them at the same time. What do you think?

have fun,

Simon:)

[Xiao Kui]

I'm very thankful for all the learners who have written some very useful programs to help us learn Chinese. But with some of these programs I've spent time getting them to work that could have been better spent with a Chinese magazine and a paper dictionary. So obsessing with new learning methods can definitely be counter-productive.

Plenty of foreigners come here, hang out with other foreigners all the time, and then meet with their Chinese tutors once a week at Western cafes, definitely the worst way to learn. In that case stay in your own country and listen to ChinesePod.

[simonlaing]

Anyone think you can learn Chinese without ever learning in a formal classroom or tutor or textbook.

There's something about textbooks and making you give back what you learned that I think is important. All the people I know who have reached a decent level have studied Chinese formally in a classroom or with a tutor for at least a year even if they studied by themselves at other points of studying.

What do you think?

[gougou]

Disagree. There's plenty of different learning styles. I for once learn much better on my own, when I can set my own pace, than in a class or with a tutor.

[yersi]

.

[renzhe]

In my experience a lot of auto-didacts arrogantly dismiss classroom settings and textbooks when they can actually be very useful for getting a solid foundation

I arrogantly dismiss classroom settings because they generally cater to the lowest common denominator and because my experience tells me that I can learn more in three months than such a class covers in a year.

Learning on your own doesn't necessarily mean learning through osmosis, or learning in an unstructured way. And there are, of course, quality courses out there.

[yersi]

.

[Lu]

It really depends on your own experience and preferences. I think if you've never learned a language before, it would be unwise to make an attempt without at least a good textbook and/or a teacher who knows what she's doing. But if you know you learn better by structuring your own plan, and you know you have the discipline to actually study, that is of course the best way. As for me, in theory I could probably learn more by myself than in a class, but in practice I'd put off doing anything that way, so I need a class. And so when I want to learn something, I find a class or at least a teacher.

Learning by osmosis mostly only works if you're under 12 years old, or if the language you're learning is not too far from the ones you already know. I think I could gain a working knowledge of Italian or Danish if I lived in the country, with a family that would talk to me a lot.

[renzhe]

Yes, I agree, not everyone can structure their own studying well on their own, and people who can do this have usually learned languages the conventional way in the past.

But this is something that I think gougou was saying. Different people learn differently. There are different types of learners, with different levels of experience and different goals and work preferences. Yet most courses are very similar in structure, throwing all these people together and forcing them to learn things the "right way". I find that this doesn't work too well for me.

I would guess that people who make good autodidacts are the people who would also make a good teacher. Because it is necessary to detect your flaws, determine your goals and structure your curriculum and work plan.

[Lu]

it is necessary to detect your flaws, determine your goals and structure your curriculum and work plan.

All true, but you forgot a very important one: the self-discipline to sit down and study when you could also watch tv or surf the internet. Without this, even the best-planning and most insightful autodidact fails hopelessly.

[renzhe]

It helps that you can choose your own resources and pick the ones that are fun.

I've never done any homework in my entire life, certainly not for a language course. But I've watched hundreds of hours of interesting TV shows -- which I had to find on my own.

As an auto-didact, you KNOW what sort of exercises you will never do, and which ones you will enjoy, so you plan accordingly.

[Lu]

I have no doubt that it works for you and many others, but for me it's often like jogging. Once you're on the road you remember why you loved it, but then you first have to get yourself off of the couch. I don't mind homework, I don't mind learning words, actually I quite like it, but I need something (teacher, deadline) that forces me to actually do it.

To wit: I love to read, and I also really like reading Chinese, once I've read a page or so. The last book I read I had a deadline for, and I finished it in less than 6 weeks, and absolute record for me. The BOTM for december is only a third as fat, and I still haven't finished it. Perhaps I'll get some reading done tonight.

Again, it's great that self-study works for you, but you can't assume it's best for everyone.

[Magnus1977]

This is the most convoluted question. Most counter productive way to study Chinese? By NOT studying. Period.

or by watching TV.

or living in America.