Bamboo Grove Posted July 14, 2004 at 07:35 AM Report Share Posted July 14, 2004 at 07:35 AM Back in the summer of -87 I was in Beijing and hopped on a bus going from my hotel to down town. I found a seat at the back and somewhere along the way a elderly man sat down next to me. He was wearing, what I would discribe an undershirt (you know the white type which looks like fishing net) and a plastic bag of empty bottles. Didn't pay much attention to him first but he started talking to me in excellent English. He told me that he used to be a doctor and had specialized in qigong. He also said that he good create magnetic fields with his hands and asked me to extend my arm. He then started moving his both hands around my hand an asked if I could feel anything. And I could. It was like somebody had touch my arm with small needles. It wasn't painful just plainly strange. I told this story to some of my friends later in Guangzhoug and Hong Kong and some people said that they don't believe in qigong but some said they do. Is there anyone who could tell me whether this kind of thing really exists, I don't mean the excercise method but as a healing method. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sunyata Posted July 14, 2004 at 01:56 PM Report Share Posted July 14, 2004 at 01:56 PM Well, if you've experienced it yourself, is that not enough proof for you that it exists? Or do you want scientific proof just to be certain? You sure sound like a Finn... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
holyman Posted July 14, 2004 at 05:15 PM Report Share Posted July 14, 2004 at 05:15 PM quite a number of them are swindlers though i dont deny there is something worth looking into this qigong thing. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Quest Posted July 14, 2004 at 05:43 PM Report Share Posted July 14, 2004 at 05:43 PM i saw PLA soldiers break bricks with their heads? I've heard accounts of qigong stories from friends. I agree with holyman this time. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bamboo Grove Posted July 15, 2004 at 06:38 AM Author Report Share Posted July 15, 2004 at 06:38 AM You sure sound like a Finn... Very true, Sunyata, very true , although out of my 44 years I've lived more than 16 out of the country . No but honestly, yes I did experience it but whether it was real qigong I have no knowing. Neither do I know enough of this topic to be able to answer it myself. If there is somebody who knows more about this, I'd be interested to hear. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
holyman Posted July 15, 2004 at 08:06 AM Report Share Posted July 15, 2004 at 08:06 AM i saw PLA soldiers break bricks with their heads? that is called 外家功夫 and not really qigong. in karate demostration those people also break layers of ice with a chop using their palm. the bad side is when they grow older these rigourous physical trainings will get back on them. the real qigong master could send a person flying away without much movement. i had a fellow citizen who went to learn some taiji in china and met a 'qigong master' coincidentally. he came back telling me this: he didnt even see that middle aged man move a thumb, and then he was knocked out of the house and fell on the pavement outside. it was a bloody embarassing experience to him, cos he had already learnt proper martial arts for a few years and yet he didnt even knew what hit him. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Quest Posted July 15, 2004 at 09:33 AM Report Share Posted July 15, 2004 at 09:33 AM it was a bloody embarassing experience to him, cos he had already learnt proper martial arts for a few years and yet he didnt even knew what hit him. i heard similar stories. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bhchao Posted July 15, 2004 at 10:30 AM Report Share Posted July 15, 2004 at 10:30 AM he didnt even see that middle aged man move a thumb, and then he was knocked out of the house and fell on the pavement outside. Bruce Lee could do that with his 1-inch punch. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sunyata Posted July 15, 2004 at 10:41 AM Report Share Posted July 15, 2004 at 10:41 AM 1-inch punch is not the same thing... Bamboo Grove but you are a smart Finn for moving to Thailand Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
keith Posted July 22, 2004 at 01:56 AM Report Share Posted July 22, 2004 at 01:56 AM What's "qigong" in Chinese please? I am really curious. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Claw Posted July 22, 2004 at 02:02 AM Report Share Posted July 22, 2004 at 02:02 AM What's "qigong" in Chinese please? I am really curious. 氣功 - the 氣 refers to your inner spirit/essence. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
amperel Posted July 22, 2004 at 07:11 AM Report Share Posted July 22, 2004 at 07:11 AM i think 氣 means more like energy - like the energy that flow between the meridian points in our body (as in acupuncture). 功 is the kong in kongfu - means effort. so i guess 氣功 means cultivating the living energy within. or something like that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
keith Posted July 22, 2004 at 04:14 PM Report Share Posted July 22, 2004 at 04:14 PM Ahhh, you are referring to 氣功! Of course of course (sorry I only know the Cantonese pronunciation "Hei Gung") Seems really cool. Which reminds me, has anyone heard of "Hing Gung"?? (Light Gung)? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
amperel Posted July 22, 2004 at 05:45 PM Report Share Posted July 22, 2004 at 05:45 PM sorry i don't have the chinese fonts on this computer. but "Hing Gung" ("hing" being cantonese pronunciation of "qing") is a type of gongfu (or qigong?) that allows one to have gravity-defying ability to fly and leap as those in the wuxia novels/movies like "crouching tiger hidden dragon". are they for real? i doubt it. but from what i read (from wuxia novels by jinyongs, kulongs, etc.), qinggong is definitely related to qigong (or neigong) - probably like a bonus of qigong. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
skylee Posted July 22, 2004 at 11:18 PM Report Share Posted July 22, 2004 at 11:18 PM 輕功 ... is real ... not only in Chinese wuxia novels ... because both superman and spiderman also use it ... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
holyman Posted July 23, 2004 at 02:46 AM Report Share Posted July 23, 2004 at 02:46 AM oh, its just ancient cliff climbing techniques, like stallone in cliffhanger... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shibo77 Posted July 24, 2004 at 02:08 AM Report Share Posted July 24, 2004 at 02:08 AM 气功Qigong (force skills) -internal exercise 武术Wushu (martial arts) -martial arts The first one is exercise, the second one is combat. They are "genres". Inside the genre, there are many more styles. Yoga would be Qigong; Karate would be Wushu. Through the ages, both have been developped extensively. People who study these well can do amazing things. A form of Qigong, combined Daoist philosophies, into Taiji (Tai-chi) "Ultimate pole". Taiji separates into different genres. The two most popular genres are Taiji quan(fists) using the hands and body; and Taiji jian(swords) using swords. Taiji and Qigong are both divided into Yin(dark) and Yang(light) styles. With the Yin more focussed on the quantity of the force for combat(survival) and the Yang more focussed on the quality of the force for exercise(longevity). Through these main genres comes out all different styles and sects, which is pretty much negligible, because they are merely the result of people in later history who happened to develop on a special variety and focus on that variety. It also has a lot of factors due to family values and feuds between different "Taiji masters". The origins of these are mostly unknown, their origins are at least as old as the Yijing (I-ching), which is about 5000 years old. This is very real. But there are alot of people nowadays who do tricks and use acupuncture and other tricks to trick people. True Taiji masters are hard to find, but there are still a sizeable number. A Taiji master is someone who has mastered the philosophies of Daoism and the skills in need to control one's force. The force is not easily explained because it cannot be explained through words. It is not the midi-chlorians you may know of from Star Wars® (I thought I had better place a ® here). Humans are only animals. We can only perceive the world throgh our senses (eyes, ears, nose, mouth, skin, hunger...). In this way, our "world view" is formed. But what we can perceive of the world is only a tiny slice of what is actually/absolutely there. In this regard we are no different from the mosquito who sees the world as thousands of smaller images, or the snake who only sees the world as infrared. Our eyes can only perceive a tiny slice of the electromagnetic spectrum named the "visible range". For us to see or even to comprehend something beyond this tiny slice of "visible range", we need to display it in a visible ranged colour. Our perception of colour and this limitation of only the tiny slice of the "visible range" is simply because of evolution. We perceive only through our senses, and our senses only develop to suit/adapt our enviornment, what is around us. The elements that constitutes our Sun or "Sol", and the helium that the Sun burns gives the whole Solar System light and colour. Those are the only light/colour that anything within this heliosphere will ever know/comprehend/sense. We cannot control time. The area of space that we are in does not have any fluxuations in time, why do the creatures living in these areas of space need to develop abilities to control time, or even to see time. For us to see/comprehend time, we have to express it in a level that we can comprehend. Namely, the third dimension, that of space. We have to show a movement of a ticker on a clock, or the movement of a bird, the wind blowing on the leaves, then will we "understand" time. All in all, we only see/know/comprehend a very tiny slice of what is really here. One aspect that has been puzzling humans is the aspect of gravity. Recently we have tried to hurriedly fit all the forces of the local universe into four major forces. Gravity is the aftereffects of a different "dimension" some say. Well dimension is not a well-established idea. As for the Taiji master, there are two in the universe. The perceived, seen, comprehended, and the unperceived, unseen, uncomprehended. It is not about levels and which is higher and which is lower. Everything in the universe is on an equal par. One cancels out the other. The scale of relativity is only a human creation to fit everything good/easy enough for human comprehension, (such as linear scale like a ruler or pyramid that is so prevalent these days). Gravity is the unperceived (do you feel the earth pulling you down, you may feel a change in gravity when you are falling or on the moon, but you cannot perceive its existence here and now), the unseen(do you see gravity), the uncomprehended(give me an exact definition of gravity in any human language). It belongs with time. These are only two of the things that we humans are fortunate enough to "know" about to a certain extent. There are much much more that we know absolutely nothing about/too ignorant at the moment to know anything about. But we can gain knowleadge of these unperceived/unseen/uncomprehended things through careful observation, abstract thinking, such as science, and meta-science. Try sitting under an apple tree, it may help... Another way is meditation. Meditation can be at peace or at move. Divided into exterior and interior. Yoga aspires for exterior/interiro both at peace, to bring your absolute existence to a still point, at least locally. Taiji aspires for exterior/interior both at move, to bring your absolute existence to a movement, at least locally. Taiji is of "perceiving"(or trying "to perceive"), "seeing"(or trying "to see"), "comprehending"(or trying "to comprehend"), and the ultimate goal, is "to control"(or trying "to control") these unperceived/unseen/uncomprehended things in the universe, such as gravity and time. Gravity is "lower" (closer to human existence, easier to comprehend, control...) than time. By throwing away your earthly ignorances, daily existence, at least for a few hours each day, and devote to meditation through Taiji exercises, you will be able to comprehend these things such as gravity, and all the levels. Gravity is not just one level, it is divided into many different levels. A Taiji master will just name them Level1.. Level2.. Level18... Magnetism such as the one you have described is pretty low level (easy). Above are controlling of objects that aren't magnetized (the leaves, wind, water...). But first, one has to calm down, perceive, comprehend, "see", "touch", "feel", control. Then you will be ready for the next level of things and start with perceive all over again. The difference from each step is a huge difference. Daily routines to calmed down is quite alot of exercises. From calmed down to perceive is a huge step, probably only less than 5% of all who practise Taiji have truly achieved. Maybe ten or twenty more years and you will be able to learn to control them. Just as easily as you control the "third dimension" (such as one picking up an apple and throwing it at someone else, is one in control of the "third dimension".) Obviously, controlling different levels of gravity is not an easy task, simply because humans did not evolve the proper apparatus to control gravity as our hands and feet have evolved to control the throwing of an apple. Taiji is much much more difficult than a foreigner learning Chinese, and all the Taiji masters are well into their 70's and 80's or have a great deal of grey hair. With all these control, it is only used as an exercise to redefine your "world view", though obviously a control of gravity can be used at times for combat and breaking bones... Although if it was to be used in combat it would usually use a lot of energy and its damages on the victim are usually internal, and not much bleeding on the outside. There are claims that some have actually perceived/saw time. But I doubt those very much. Also some say/joke that Lao Zi (leading figure of Daoism who disappeared) actually controlled time, and disappeared from humanity... The origin of these Qigong practises and how they came about is uncertain, but very old and has been developped almost continously since prehistory. All these hermits deep in these elusive mountains, no TV, no women... expect something truly amazing. Ok! Sorry to waste your time and eyes! May the force be with you! -Shibo Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
holyman Posted July 24, 2004 at 02:51 AM Report Share Posted July 24, 2004 at 02:51 AM do not agree with all. i would say qigong is a kind of martial arts, particularly chinese/oriental martial arts, assuming that qigong is real. no martial arts student can go without some kind of qigong. it formed the basis for all of these martial arts. it can be simple, just some concentration when one try to break a plank or chop a glass bottle. or it can be complicated, like sending someone flying without actually touching them. taiji/i-ching is a confucian ideology, and it is not as mystical as u put it. my father is a taiji coach for more than half a century and he's probably the best in my hometown, so i believe i have some say in this. qigong is not the sole result of taoist philosophy, althou popular among taoists. the term appeared in chinese medical books long b4 taoists came to exist. and there are buddhism qigong which follow a different set of training and aims from taoists qigong. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bamboo Grove Posted July 24, 2004 at 09:10 AM Author Report Share Posted July 24, 2004 at 09:10 AM Thank you for your answers Shibo 77 and holyman. Shibo, do you practise these things yourself? Do you have links to any pages concerning these things? Holyman, you say your father teaches taiji, does it include any kind of qigong pracitse and if yes, what kind? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
badboy Posted July 24, 2004 at 01:14 PM Report Share Posted July 24, 2004 at 01:14 PM If you are looking to practice qigong, this book is excellent: http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/detail/-/0671736450/qid=1090674238/sr=8-1/ref=pd_ka_1/104-6930975-8601569?v=glance&s=books&n=507846 I'd suggest ignoring the review there of July 11th. There is a wealth of information in this book and I think it is the best in its field. Also, a more advanced book by the same author: http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/detail/-/0736044809/ref=pd_bxgy_img_2/104-6930975-8601569?v=glance&s=books The March 30th, 2003 review of the 2nd book above is mine. By the way, this is harder than it looks. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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