Frequently used chengyu project

[chrix]

For this character, CEDict provides three different tones, with different definitions: http://us1.mdbg.net/chindict/chindic...wdqb=%E5%93%84 . And, to make things more confusing, only the fourth tone version has a different simplified version.

I think you meant 'traditional'...

This is a complicated case. Actually even in some traditional dictionaries, 哄 and 鬨 are variants.

But you're right, even though I personally prefer the TW standard, I've made the BJ standard the "basic version" in the database and have noted it wherever possible. If I ever get around to doing this in a comprehensive manner, then I might some kind of option in the final database to toggle around between TW and BJ, or sth like that...

[jbradfor]

think you meant 'traditional'...

What's the difference in meaning between "the traditional form is different from the simplified form" and "the simplified form is different from the traditional form"?

[chrix]

Because the simplified form is the same in all three tones, namely 哄. Only in traditional you get a different form, 鬨, but 哄 is also in use as a simplification within the traditional script.

[jbradfor]

Ah. I see the ambiguity.

And, to make things more confusing, only the fourth tone version has a different simplified version.

I meant "only the fourth tone version has a different simplified version than the traditional version for that pronunciation/meaning", not "only the fourth tone version has a different traditional character than the other two pronunciations". But I think I've beaten this to death.... Where's that dead horse icon again?

[chrix]

Just something for those interested in statistics: from 1,589 unique hanzi in the 1,424 chengyu, 111 are characters less frequent than the 3,500 most frequent characters:

殒嗷纶椟濡锲涎铤竽杞孑伥踞蟠褴褛眈茹犊猢狲鸩瓮鳖谆帼肓觑辗韬鹬蚌瑕獠杵骧菅脍炙轸疵喋雳萃帚蜻蜓黔剐纭愎揖姗螳蜋姹嫣栩栉噤珑忐忑岌蹶瘁偃瞭蟾蹑峦囫囵粱诲唳篑倨偕噎俎庖惮砥昙辕蜃骛貉掣踵颦毖荼娲咤迢胫釜诿婀滂沱瞠骥罄燎殃揠籁缤

[chrix]

Here's an updated list of errata of the frequent chengyu list.

These were the ones from last year:

- 蚕食鲸吞, for some reason my "accented pinyin" field was all messed up, it should be cán shí jīng tūn

- 瓜田李下: "pulling on one's shoe in a melon patch / adjusting one's cup under a plum tree / to be in suspicious circumstances" should be "pulling on one's shoe in a melon patch, or adjusting one's cap under a plum tree / to be in suspicious circumstances" The first bit is a literal summary of the 典故 behind the chengyu.

- 殺雞取卵 shā jī qǔ luǎn

- 櫛風沐雨: "trabel all t he time" should be "travel all the time"

- 如履薄冰: for some reason the jiantizi field was "如履薄冰如履薄冰"

- 董狐之比: should be 董狐之筆 (the jiantizi version was correct)

- 晴天霹靂: the Japanese reading seiten no hekireki erroneously ended up in the Source field

- 數一數二: should read shǔ yī shǔ èr

- 雙管齊下: a copy and paste error in CEDICT in the English field: It should be something along the lines of "paint a picture with two brushes at the same time - work along both lines, do two things at the same time"

And here are some more recent corrections:

there are two doublets in the list: 了如指掌 and 瞭如指掌, and 每下愈況 und 每況雨下. They can both be used, but probably it doesn't make sense to learn them as separate chengyu.

Character mistake:

聚蚊成雷 not 文

Translation mistake:

近朱者赤，近墨者黑 not cinnabar (硃), but vermillion （朱）!

Some errors in the pinyin column:

怒髮衝冠 fa4, not fa1 (fa3 is TW reading)

榮辱與共 ru3, not ru4 (TW reading)

天花亂墜 hua1, not huan1

不失時機> shi2 shi1 -> shi1 shi2

無中生有 sheng1, not sheng3

依依不舍 bu4, not bu2

不堪回首 bu4, not bi4

不厭其煩 yàn, not fàn.

[renzhe]

Would it be useful to compile a list of chengyu used in contemporary TV shows? There are many in iPartment, Haoxianghaoxiang, and Fendou, for example, and some costume dramas are full of them. We (will soon) have complete vocab lists for both Fendou and iPartment, and I estimate that there should be at least 100 chengyu (most of them not on your list) hidden in there.

Since these shows are primarily aimed at young people, they should be using chengyu that most young people are familiar with.

It was something I was planning to do, at least for iPartment.

[chrix]

I did exactly the same thing for Battle Star Galactica (there's a thread somewhere). By all means do share them, and I'll check them against my database and include them. It doesn't matter if the list has 1,400 or 1,500

[phyrex]

There's Battlestar Galactica in Chinese?!?!?!??!!!?????

[chrix]

http://www.chinese-forums.com/index.php?/topic/23332-missing-battlestar-galactica

Just a note about the BSG chengyu I collected: a lot of what's not in my list is not even in the entire database, which means that they might be literary expressions and collocations rather than chengyu in the strict sense. I used a complex formula to pick the 1,424 chengyu, but frequency was also a factor. But I'm all for including commonly used literary collocations as well, even if they don't fall under the strict definition of chengyu, as it will still be useful to learners...

[phyrex]

Oh, just subtitles I'm glad to hear though, that you like Firefly too ;)

[jbradfor]

Here's an updated list of errata of the frequent chengyu list.

Could you repost this will all the changes? Or is there a permanent link to the latest version somewhere that I missed?

[chrix]

Sorry about replying here so late, I haven't forgotten about this, just had too much going on recently.

- I'm working on updating the list, including some 100 additional chengyu I got from a book on 300 essential chengyu. I have almost completed the entire original list in my SRS now and have corrected all mistakes I have noticed.

- I'm also planning to put up a google doc with all the chengyu from the list, in order to ask people to come up with better definitions for them (in both English and German ;) ). I've found that the freely available dictionaries do not always have good chengyu entries (and in some cases lack important chengyu anyways). If this project has any success we could also contact the people behind those popular free dictionaries and thus contribute to improving them.

- I will also rename this thread, to "frequently used chengyu project" or something like that.

[jbradfor]

- I'm also planning to put up a google doc with all the chengyu from the list, in order to ask people to come up with better definitions for them (in both English and German ;) ).

I suggest developing a set format wrt a literal translation and one or more figurative translations. Nothing major, just do you want the literal first or last, and how to indicate the literal translation.

Many defs already have this, but it's inconsistent.

[chrix]

I think ideally you would split it up in different categories, "literal meaning" and "definition". You could also add "English equivalent" in case there is a proverb or other kind of saying in English that is used in similar situations.

[陳德聰]

So... I know this is an extremely old thread, but I have been pondering a “chengyu by frequency” list the last couple of days and it led me to PKU’s CCL online corpus. I found a list of “成语和四字词” on baidu’s wenku that claims to be ordered by frequency in this corpus, but there is no other info around methodology and searching some very common chengyu in the wenku list did not inspire confidence. Curious if efforts here have extended beyond ranking by google hits.

[889]

They probably had to use Bing.

 

[陳德聰]

3 hours ago, 889 said:

They probably had to use Bing.

Huh?