Studying too much; speaking too little

[SunDaYu]

I've been in China for about a month now and I only speak Chinese maybe 8 hours a week. Most of my time is spent doing two Chinese pod intermediate lessons a day, reviewing random words I write down (usually 30 new ones a day), and going through a textbook for my classes.

I feel like my Chinese is definitely improving, but I feel like I should be speaking more and studying less since I am in China after all.

Your thoughts?

[Meng Lelan]

This is a very common problem for beginning students of any language.

Continue your studies at the level and pace at which you are most comfortable, but don't isolate yourself in your studies.

Roddy had a really good set of advice for speaking more by starting conversations naturally by some really mundane remark like about what someone is doing, the weather, etc. I can't remember where he posted it...

[roddy]

this, I think.

[Meng Lelan]

Yes, exactly, thanks roddy.

SunDaYu, I think that link is going to be quite helpful.

[roddy]

Not a great deal to add to what I say in the link - but if you're feeling a need for it, then even if you're already getting enough speaking practice (is there such a thing?) you might as well use that need and get a bit extra - it can't do any harm.

[wannabeafreak]

Steve Kaufmann states speaking only makes up a very small amount for the ability to acquire a language. You need to input tons of vocab and have the ability to understand what your speaker is saying to you in order to improve. He states you only need to spend a fraction of your time on speaking and majority of the time spent on acquiring new words and phrases. You can't speak something you can't understand or learned before.

Speaking too much without enough input will make you sound like a foreigner and burn in bad habits accordingly because you haven't listened enough to the tones and intonations to say it correctly when you say it.

I used to make the mistake of wanting to speak more in order to get better at Chinese. Turns out now I sound like a foreigner and conversations were just plainly limited in that it didn't even help since I had very little vocabulary to use when speaking.

[SunDaYu]

I heard of that too. I also have a friend who became fluent in Chinese in one year...he did it by speaking a lot during his first semester here, but after that he said that his speaking level started to "level out" and now he learns by attending regular Chinese classes, reading a lot, and watching Chinese TV.

It's interesting because I also know a girl here who, although she speaks to her Chinese friends everyday, sounds terrible when she speaks, compared to her friend, who has been here just as long but studies much harder, who sounds more natural.

Another example is a guy who only spoke Chinese for about 6 months in China. He learned a lot of words and could communicate very well, but all of his friends would say that his tones were terrible and, although he could say a lot, sounded like he just started learning Chinese.

@Robby, that's some really good advice. Honestly, I do that in English all the time, but sometimes it makes the other people feel awkward unless I back it up with a quick joke, but in Chinese it's a little harder for me to do that, so we are usually left with the "crash and burn" that you mentioned. I just have to get used to not caring about face as much and get used to getting burned.

[roddy]

I also have a friend who became fluent in Chinese in one year.

With no offence to your friend, I'll wager he didn't. I suspect he became good at handling a narrow range of predictable situations, which is no bad acheivement for a year, but it's not fluent - that's Rung One on the Tall Ladder of Fluency. Cue debate on what fluent means.

The bad habits are only going to get burned in if you aren't aware of them or don't attempt to fix them - ie, assuming that you will 'pick up' the tones is a prime example. It's not a matter of class time versus practice time, tutors versus friends, speaking versus vocab acquisition - it's bumbling along with some vague sense of progress being made, versus being aware of your strengths and weaknesses, and applying effort to the weaknesses.

[renzhe]

Speaking too much without enough input will make you sound like a foreigner and burn in bad habits accordingly because you haven't listened enough to the tones and intonations to say it correctly when you say it.

For some reason, I've been drifting from the "make mistakes, just talk, worry about it later" towards the "get a feel for the language before you babble too much" approach.

It was somewhat dictated by learning Chinese in a non-Chinese environment with little opportunity for speaking, but I found that it wasn't a problem, quite the opposite.

I still make some of the same mistakes I did 10 years ago when I was first learning German. Sure, I should know better, and if I concentrate, I speak properly, but they sometimes creep in naturally without noticing. With Chinese, I notice I'm not making many of the mistakes my fellow learners are making, although (or because) I put off extensive speaking practice for so long.

Of course, it's one experience and probably doesn't mean anything, but I'm very open to learning passively and only focussing on active speech once you get a feel for the language. The language teachers are probably cringing now

[SunDaYu]

Sometimes I question the usefulness of language teachers--beyond the native speaking tutor...which is bad because I was considering teaching Chinese in America someday >.<

@Roddy

Yeah, he claims to have become fluent and I believe him to an extent. He considers himself fluent in the language in that he say most all of the things that the average Chinese person can say. So, can he give a dissertation or a speech about the global economy in Chinese? No, but he can read books, watch tv, watch movies, and function in everyday life without every having to consult a dictionary--with the exception of obscure Confucius terms and some Chengyu.

[anonymoose]

Personally I think speaking is quite an important part of the learning process, not so much to acquire new knowledge, as to consolidate what has already been learnt. I'm sure there are many words and expressions that have been fixed in my mind as a result of having actually used them in real conversation. I think that by constantly studying from books only, without any language production oneself, you will end up reaching an equilibrium where you are forgetting old things at the same rate as learning new things. By actually applying your knowledge, it will get fixed more firmly in your mind.

I also have a friend who became fluent in Chinese in one year

Yeah, he claims to have become fluent

I believe he claims to have become fluent, but I'm with Roddy on this one - I'm fairly positive that the reality is he's far from it. I knew a guy who could count to ten with a strain, and possibly order a beer, and he considered himself fluent. Maybe your friend is better than this, but I simply don't believe he could possibly hold an in depth conversation about much after only one year.

I also agree with Roddy about something else. What really determines whether one's ability will improve is how much focus one puts on actually making the improvement. Blindly practicing speaking, listening or whatever, without putting in a conscious effort to fix defective areas, is not going to be of much benefit.

[Lu]

I think one good thing about speaking is that it makes you practice speaking, but another great thing is that you get to listen to what the other person says, and learn from that. Even if you speak English to someone, if they answer in Chinese it's still a great help.

[renzhe]

I found it a great help to just listen to conversations in China. Let people talk naturally and simply listen.