katyjo Posted September 8, 2009 at 08:12 PM Report Share Posted September 8, 2009 at 08:12 PM I just speak from experience. I know lots of Caucasion men who are married to Chinese women. None of the father are learning Chinese. They are all working hard to pay for private school tuition and all the other stuff. As long as they support their wives' goals of raising their children in a Chinese way, the wives are very happy. It is challenging enough to raise kids to speak Chinese in a environment were Chinese is not the main language. If she had wanted a Chinese speaking man, she probably would have married one. You should ask her. From your post, she does not sound share your enthusiasm. Learning Chinese is very time consuming. You'll see... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
renzhe Posted September 8, 2009 at 08:27 PM Report Share Posted September 8, 2009 at 08:27 PM They are all working hard to pay for private school tuition and all the other stuff. As long as they support their wives' goals of raising their children in a Chinese way, the wives are very happy Sounds like a bank machine. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Neil_H Posted September 8, 2009 at 08:30 PM Author Report Share Posted September 8, 2009 at 08:30 PM I know it is very time consuming. I have not just started learning. I have being studying seriously for over a year and less serious before that. I have been able to speak some Mandarin since 2003. She supports my direction in learning but is not that bothered if I don't continue to learn. We live in a large 5 bedroom house with no mortgage so are doing very well for our age. We spent far more time on it before our daughter was born in March. Hopefully when she starts to go to sleep earlier we will be able to have more time together. I expect the other poster with a 1 year old knows what I mean! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
katyjo Posted September 8, 2009 at 08:45 PM Report Share Posted September 8, 2009 at 08:45 PM Last week, I asked a terrific Caucasion dad what he did in China for 2 months when he went with his Chinese speaking wife and child. He said that his wife's family is very large and took him all over the place. The family are always eager to practice English with him. I could tell that you are very kind and it is wonderful that you want to learn Chinese. Chinese language is culture is so deep and rich with meaning. I've been learning for years and so have my kids. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
xianhua Posted September 8, 2009 at 08:50 PM Report Share Posted September 8, 2009 at 08:50 PM They are all working hard to pay for private school tuition and all the other stuff. As long as they support their wives' goals of raising their children in a Chinese way, the wives are very happy I wouldn't say this applies to everyone. My wife would much rather I spent time at home with our child, than going out and earning a high salary to pay for fleeting material objects and school fees. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
renzhe Posted September 8, 2009 at 08:57 PM Report Share Posted September 8, 2009 at 08:57 PM I know it is very time consuming. I have not just started learning. I have being studying seriously for over a year and less serious before that. I have been able to speak some Mandarin since 2003. I was in your exact same shoes, learning on-and-off semi-seriously for a number of years with very little to show for it. I run into people like this all the time. Chinese is simply difficult, and it is specific in that it requires volume and perseverance over a period of time. The turning point for me was deciding to study every day and to be very consequent and aggressive about it. I got a list of the most common 1000 characters and started brute forcing it every day. I went through a set of different textbooks, one lesson per week. I started watching lots of TV. I started reading anything I could get my hands on. My guess is that you need 1) structure and 2) volume. Set aside an hour each day for studying Chinese. A part of this must be flashcards with an SRS system. Something like Anki. Don't miss it under any circumstances. Make it a religion. Learn the HSK vocabulary, which is freely downloadable for most flashcard programs and which covers most important stuff. Then get a good textbook, a course for learning Chinese. Something like NPCR or Integrated Chinese. It's worth the money. Read the texts, do the exercises, and you'll much better questions and discussion material for your wife. Do a lesson per week (you'll need a couple of hours on the weekend), and spend the weekdays on exercises and revision if you have the time (flashcards take priority, though). On top of this, which is alpha and omega, comes everything else that counts as supplementary material. Podcasts. TV shows. Reading (in the early stages -- once your vocabulary expands, reading will become very important). Do this whenever you can and whenever you have time. Watch interesting TV shows with your wife, listen to podcasts on the way to work, stuff like that. Once I started doing this every day, all the time, my level really started picking up and I left the eternal beginner, 你好， 你叫什么名字？ level. It still takes time and perseverance, but there is a measurable progress which serves as great motivation. And after a while, you get to a point where, although you're still learning, you can enjoy native speaker materials, like movies, like books, music, etc. At that point, everything you do in your daily life will improve your Chinese. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Neil_H Posted September 8, 2009 at 09:01 PM Author Report Share Posted September 8, 2009 at 09:01 PM Do you think it is better to not waste time on the college evening course? This is 2.5 hours a week for a year. Not enough to learn quickly from but I was wondering if it would give more structure. Hard to say. It could be a load of rubbish and trying something that has worked for other members is a much better option?? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
renzhe Posted September 8, 2009 at 09:05 PM Report Share Posted September 8, 2009 at 09:05 PM I personally have had good experience with taught courses in the early stages. If it won't take much of your time and it isn't too expensive, you should do it. Self-study can be very effective, but it is also tricky, and some direction in the beginning is a good thing. I forgot to mention this, but this is also something that helped me move out of a rut. It will be good for a foundation, for proper pronunciation, getting the basic things like tone down, etc. And the teacher will be able to explain things in a way that your wife cannot (because she's not a teacher). You should still study on your own every day, though. Most evening courses won't take you far on their own. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Meng Lelan Posted September 8, 2009 at 11:44 PM Report Share Posted September 8, 2009 at 11:44 PM The 2.5 hours a week will seem minimal to you right now, but a foundation is what you need right now. As a teacher I tell my students that a house with no foundation will collapse. If you don't understand pinyin and how it works, later on you have problems inputting it into a computer to make characters. If you don't understand radicals, later on you will have problems remembering the meaning of each character. And so on. A trained teacher will help you set up the "foundation". A trained teacher also understands how to help you practice in class so that you can use the foundation on your own outside of class. You only need a semester or two to set up the foundation. After that if you want to be on your own in terms of self study, then be on your own. I don't expect all my students to keep taking formal classes after the first year, but they should expect me to teach the basics to them. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
heifeng Posted September 9, 2009 at 02:30 AM Report Share Posted September 9, 2009 at 02:30 AM I strongly second Meng Lelan's post. Take the classes. Even if when you go home you have little time to study outside of class you'll pick up more during those classes than twice that amount of time at home with a not-so-willing teacher...or least not properly trained teacher. PLUS I think that interacting with other students and speakers of Chinese will be very helpful to you as well. Congrats on your daughter~ Now enroll in that class, but don't catch up on that well needed sleep during it! By the time she can read you can probably teach her some Hanzi if you get started NOW! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Neil_H Posted September 10, 2009 at 03:05 PM Author Report Share Posted September 10, 2009 at 03:05 PM Last night the college had an open day on where the tutors were available to discuss the course. I found this really good as I got to speak to the teacher (in Mandarin) and cover content, my experience in the subject and so on. She told me they did not currently offer a higher level course than the intermediate one as my level was at the next stage up from this course. She kindly offered to add some extra content to the course for myself with more difficult stuff to take home and practice with my wife. Based on the advice of other posters here I have decided to go ahead with the course. Even if it is stuff I already know (and by the sound of the content I do) it will give me the chance to speak the sentences and practice with a proper trainer thus cementing sentence patterns whilst ensuring I stick to it. I overheard the teacher say to a colleague that I was really good, spoke fast and had a large vocabulary. Having a little praise like this felt really nice and lifted my enthusiasm. My wife is a tough trainer not allowing me any slack or any tones not correct. I think this will pay off in the class as the teacher remarked that I had the tones as well as the words which the current students can’t do. I will obviously continue with my daily 30 minutes at lunch and time in the evening with my wife. I have stopped trying to learn new words for the moment and gone back to the Pimsleur training of repetition and sentence order rather then Chinese POD elementary. My wife was doing her usual computer like translation the other night speaking to one friend in Mandarin, another in Cantonese and me in English all at the same time (over MSN). Envy envy envy! Kind of excited to get started now. Just two weeks to go. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
renzhe Posted September 10, 2009 at 04:12 PM Report Share Posted September 10, 2009 at 04:12 PM My wife is a tough trainer not allowing me any slack or any tones not correct. See what a wonderful "resource" you have Many people struggle for years because they don't get such honest feedback. Your plan sounds good. Don't forget that the intermediate course will probably also teach some things that you don't already know -- self-learners often have some holes in their knowledge. So you'll be making sure that you have a good foundation. I still recommend flashcards and reading stuff outside of class. Get some comic books from China, read stuff, follow a textbook, etc. Reading is the best way for obtaining new vocabulary. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Neil_H Posted September 10, 2009 at 04:42 PM Author Report Share Posted September 10, 2009 at 04:42 PM My wife has just taken a call for me at home saying the course has been cancelled Not enough people are reaching the required standard to get on the course. Only 4 so far and they need 10. I will have to see if another local college has a course on. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
imron Posted September 10, 2009 at 11:44 PM Report Share Posted September 10, 2009 at 11:44 PM Another thing you could try is contacting the original college to see if the Chinese teacher was interested in giving private tutoring. It wouldn't need to be much, just enough to provide structure and direction which you could then practice at home. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Meng Lelan Posted September 11, 2009 at 01:46 AM Report Share Posted September 11, 2009 at 01:46 AM If there's a Confucius Institute near you, contact them too. The Confucius Institute offers Chinese language classes for the community in which the office is located or they supply funds to the local Chinese Schools where they offer classes open to the general community. In fact the Confucius Institute is going to be "taking over" my Chinese School next year. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Neil_H Posted September 11, 2009 at 07:38 AM Author Report Share Posted September 11, 2009 at 07:38 AM I have contacted the college asking if the teacher runs courses at any of the other local colleges. As luck would have it our daughter is starting to go to sleep a bit earlier everyday so the opportunity to have some time together to practice is starting to open up. I like the idea of contacting the tutor. It would be nice to have her come round and discuss where I am and what I need to do with my wife present as she can more quickly describe what has been happening under her teaching. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Neil_H Posted September 11, 2009 at 07:48 AM Author Report Share Posted September 11, 2009 at 07:48 AM No Confucius places. I was quite surprised when I noticed they were doing Chinese courses in my area. I think only the beginners course brings in the required number of people to make it worth running. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
muyongshi Posted September 11, 2009 at 11:25 AM Report Share Posted September 11, 2009 at 11:25 AM It would be nice to have her come round and discuss where I am and what I need to do with my wife present as she can more quickly describe what has been happening under her teaching. Hmmm I think this may not be the BEST idea. Depending on their personalities there is a possibility for your wife disagreeing with the tutor and actually creating more of a problem. I'm thinking mainly linguistically. She may think you don't need to learn something the tutor does, or there could be some argument about a phrase and if it is used or not or what it REALLY means, etc. Not saying it will be but there is a chance Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gato Posted September 11, 2009 at 11:43 AM Report Share Posted September 11, 2009 at 11:43 AM Hmmm I think this may not be the BEST idea. Depending on their personalities there is a possibility for your wife disagreeing with the tutor and actually creating more of a problem. I'm thinking mainly linguistically. She may think you don't need to learn something the tutor does, or there could be some argument about a phrase and if it is used or not or what it REALLY means, etc. Not saying it will be but there is a chance I second what Muyongshi said. Inviting a female stranger into the house may not be the best of ideas.... Take a look at this thread: http://www.chinese-forums.com/index.php?/topic/26-traditional-vs-simplified-characters802 Insane jealousy Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Neil_H Posted September 11, 2009 at 12:02 PM Author Report Share Posted September 11, 2009 at 12:02 PM Ha ha, My wife is not like that and I would of course get her opinion on it before I invited anyone in. We always discuss all matters together before coming to a decision. The tutor I met looked almost twice the age of my wife. I am also very fortunate to have a pretty little Chinese lady for my wife. The idea would be around sitting down together and discussing what the two of us should do about my training so we do it in a structured way. It will be upto myself and my wife to go ahead and do it. Does that sound a good way to do it given the lack of courses? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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