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chrix

Unexpected readings of phonetic components

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trien27

番 = fān

宀 , mián + 番, fān = 審, shěn / pán ?

禺 = yú

亻, rén + 禺, yú = 偶, ǒu?

番禺 as a place name in Guangdong province = pān yú?

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renzhe

Here's one we haven't had: 埋

Though I assume that both parts are semantic here.

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imron

And another: 拙

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Hofmann
番 = fān

宀 , mián + 番, fān = 審, shěn / pán ?

禺 = yú

亻, rén + 禺, yú = 偶, ǒu?

審 is 宷 and 田. Not phono-semantic.

禺 虞俱切; 偶 五口切. Pullyblank says [ŋuə̆] and [ŋəw] respectively.

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trien27

岔 = chà: 分 = fēn / fèn, 山 = shān. means fork(s), like "Fork(s) in the road", etc...

叉, chā: 丶= zhǔ, 又 = yòu. Fork(s) [as eating utensils.]

岔 & 叉: They're both translated as "forks" in English and they're both "cha" but with different tones in Chinese pronunciation?!

What's the possibility that two Chinese words with similar pronunciations in Mandarin [but they are the same pronunciation in Cantonese] would end up being translated into English using the same word, with the same number of letters even though their function is a bit different?

Will the real "fork" / "cha" please stand up?

How come 叉燒 / 叉烧 is a type of food rather than "The roasting or burning of forks"?

See Wikipedia here for entry of 叉燒 / 叉烧: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cha_siu

Edited by trien27

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trien27

激 [jī] = derived from 敫 [jiǎo]? = 白 [bái / bó?] + 放[fàng]? but 邀 = [yāo]?

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Hofmann
岔...叉

These are not 形聲字. A quick way to check is to use this or this to search 說文解字. I'm not implying that Xu Shen is always right.

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jbradfor

[Hope this is not a repeat, too lazy to check...]

勺 (sháo) vs 約 (yuē) vs 的 (de)

How come 叉燒 / 叉烧 is a type of food rather than "The roasting or burning of forks"?

Refers to food cooked on a fork.

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imron

And a couple more:

and

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jbradfor

腔 (qiang1) vs 空, 控, 倥 (all kong).

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Hofmann

腔 (qiang1) vs 空, 控, 倥 (all kong).

FYI, all of these are homophones of 腔 in Middle Chinese.

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valikor

Random question about this thread:

At what point would considering these exceptions become useful? Some time ago, Chrix (I think) commented on a thread of mine that I should consider studying these exceptions. Of course, a beginner at Chinese would probably find little benefit in this, but it presumably is helpful for advanced students. Right now I have some knowledge of around 1500 characters and am always looking for new tricks (you know, the magic solution) for remembering the Hanzi.

What do you think? Thanks.

David

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jbradfor

樂 (yue4 or le4) vs 爍 (shuo4) vs 藥 (yao4).

[bTW, what's up with the simplification for this one? 乐 and 烁 vs 药?]

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Kobo-Daishi

Dear Jbradfor,

樂 (yue4 or le4) vs 爍 (shuo4) vs 藥 (yao4).

[bTW, what's up with the simplification for this one? 乐 and 烁 vs 药?]

乐 is from the cursive handwriting for 樂.

葯 is a common variant for 藥 so they just used 药 with a cursive handwriting simplification for the "silk" part.

Kobo-Daishi, PLLA.

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Hofmann

At what point would considering these exceptions become useful?

David

Knowing that they exist and what they're like is sufficient IMO. Besides that I don't find any value in seeking them out.

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jbradfor

步 (bu4) + 页 (ye4) = 频 (pin2). How does that work?

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anonymoose

岔 = chà: 分 = fēn / fèn, 山 = shān. means fork(s), like "Fork(s) in the road", etc...

叉, chā: 丶= zhǔ, 又 = yòu. Fork(s) [as eating utensils.]

岔 & 叉: They're both translated as "forks" in English and they're both "cha" but with different tones in Chinese pronunciation?!

What's the possibility that two Chinese words with similar pronunciations in Mandarin [but they are the same pronunciation in Cantonese] would end up being translated into English using the same word, with the same number of letters even though their function is a bit different?

You mean like

燕 yàn = swallow

咽 yàn = swallow

?

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anonymoose

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imron

Another one I just came across, 撮 vs 最

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