TOP "For beginners" march 27 2010

[edelweis]

Has anyone here taken yesterday's TOP "for beginners" test?

I found some of the questions were

1) confusing (especially the one where you're asked whether the face drawing has a big mouth, small ears, or widely spaced eyes ??? and also when the kids are grilling fish while holding plates with unidentified chunks of food on them, does that count as 烤肉 or 做饭 ? I think I can safely assume they are not 在考试)

2) quite similar to some sample test questions, which made me doubt whether there was a tricky difference I missed

3) using known vocab in unexpected ways (for instance 下下个月, I am aware of reduplication - I mean I know it exists - but I thought it was too advanced for the "for beginners" test and had never encountered this particular reduplication before a specifier so was a little confused. In the end I selected the "next month/august" option not the "month after next/september" one.)

4) using unknown vocab or objects. In most instances I found the unknown vocab of object was in an incorrect answer (I mean, I think I identified the correct answer among the remaining choices). However for the hamburger question, I did not hear hanbao (perhaps I missed it?) so I ended up selecting the boxed lunch with soda. But I am unsure about that especially since I don't know what the boxed lunch is called and did not recognize any food words in the audio track except for kele.

Also random info about the test for anyone who's interested:

Those who had selected "traditional characters" had a different booklet than those who had selected "simplified characters". The "simplified characters" one actually had traditional characters on the left page and simplified on the right page.

Even in the simplified character text they write 着 (zhe suffix) as 著.

[vinta]

Dear Sir/ Madam,

Thank you for taking the test (For Beginner). Your feedback is valuable to us and will allow us to improve our tests. The following is our response to your concern and comment. You mentioned that some test items are indirect colloquial statements/expressions (e.g., “the month after next month”, a common colloquial expression in Mandarin Chinese) and that these items thus are not suitable for beginners. Your point is well taken. However, you may also need to be aware that these “prefabricated” indirect expressions are frequently used in colloquial Chinese, as such they are extensively used even by beginning learners. The inclusion of these colloquial expressions intends to reflect the authentic language frequently used by beginning learners.

Additionally, you also noted a typographic error (i.e., misplacing the traditional Chinese character with a simplified one) in the test. We appreciate your feedback and will definitely be more prudent in constructing test items. Thank you once again for your valuable opinion.

SC-TOP Huayu

[edelweis]

thanks for the reply Vinta.

Probably most of my issues were due to my poor preparation rather than the test itself.

Anyway, it feels great that you took the time to answer a test taker's post

[edelweis]

I just got the results today:

"For Beginners" test: passed with a total score of 73/80

"Basic" test: failed (as I expected).

Vinta, you might want to consider changing the certificate comment "simplified version" into "simplified characters version" so as to minimize confusion with people who are not aware of the two sets of characters.

I think next year I will probably attempt the "Basic" test in traditional characters (provided my Chinese language frenzy has not abated).

[Shi Tong]

Hello Edelweis, interesting that you assumed that 下下个月 was a typo there old chap.. I would have thought that there really is only one answer for that (the month after next).. but I suppose it's quite hard for a beginner to decide if this should mean what it does (the month after next) if they think that there could be a typo!

Am I right in thinking that the TOP is the Taiwanese based Test?

Congratulations on the pass! May the passes long continue and flood through your letterbox until it bursts! ;)

[edelweis]

thanks Shi Tong.

Yes the TOP is a Taiwanese test.

The information site is: http://www.sc-top.org.tw

[vinta]

Congratulations for passing! I hope you will pass basic test ,too.If you have any question ,you can e-mail to service@sc-top.org.tw.

http://www.sc-top.org.tw/

Vinta Tseng

Steering Committee for the Test Of Proficiency-Huayu (SC-TOP)

[Shi Tong]

Hello Vinta,

Is it possible to take the test in the UK? I am currently studying Mandarin, and am unsure of my level of ability. I have considered the HSK, and other more traditional routes (GCSE and A Levels/ Degree levels in the UK), but am open to suggestions for other tests.

What can I use the TOP test for? (will it get me entry to Taiwanese colleges? What level does it go to ETC, what does it count for?)

If I can take the test in the UK, when do you hold the tests, how much do they cost, and how often do you run them?

Thanks in advance!!

[Kobo-Daishi]

Dear Edelweis,

Even in the simplified character text they write 着 (zhe suffix) as 著.

That's because 着 isn't a simplification for 著.

Both characters, 着 and 著, are used on the mainland.

Entry from the Xiandai Hanyu Cidian.

They are used interchangeably for some but not all pronunciations/definitions.

There was a huge discussion about this at the forums at the Chinese (Cantonese) Help Sheets web site a few years back.

Kobo-Daishi, PLLA.

[edelweis]

Kobo-Daishi,

thank you for this information.

So a traditional-to-simplified translation program would not change 著 into 着 (and it seems they don't).

Also it is not really a big issue as the sample test (simplified characters version) also uses 著. So any serious test-taker would be aware to read it as 着, even without knowing why.

However, for a beginner's test (800 word vocabulary required), would it not make sense to use 着 instead?

I mean, it seems unlikely that a beginning student (especially self-taught) who has only studied simplifed characters would know about 著.

I certainly didn't before I tried the sample tests.

My Pinyin input software does not even propose 著 when I type "zhe" - but the first character proposed is 着. It looks like 着 is MUCH more frequently used than 著. Perhaps you have figures?

[Kobo-Daishi]

Dear Edelweis,

It looks like 着 is MUCH more frequently used than 著. Perhaps you have figures?

I don't have any figures and wouldn't know how to get them.

Sometimes the search engines don't differentiate between traditional and simplified character sets.

Besides both the characters are part of the the "traditional" and "simplified" characters used on Taiwan and the mainland respectively.

And the character encodings include both characters as well.

Here is an example from the latest episode of the American comedy TV series The Big Bang Theory with subtitles provided by Chinese Netizens in simplified.

I looked in my copy of The Far East Chinese-English Dictionary (a traditional character dictionary produced on Taiwan) and for 着 they have zhuo2, zhao2, zhao1, zhe5 with a definition of "same as 著".

Of the five pronunciations for 著 in the dictionary only for zhu4 is 着 not used.

That would be in keeping with the subtitle in the image.

Since 著名, "famous, renowned" is zhu4 ming2.

The collaboratively produced free dictionary, CEDICT, doesn't differentiate between the usages and has 着名 as well as 著名 to mean "famous".

The Yuandong Guoyu Cidian (a Chinese only dictionary) from the same company that produced the Far East Chinese-English Dictionary says that 着 is the vulgar form for 著.

It's all a big jumble to me.

I just keep in mind that they mean the same for some of the pronunciations/definitions and a lot of time they get mixed up and from one dictionary to another they might be under some pronunciations and some definitions and sometimes not.

Kobo-Daishi, PLLA.

[skylee]

Re 着 and 著. I write in Traditional script. To me they are not interchangeable in many cases, but I note that many people use 著 only (I suspect that a main reason is that 着 is not in the database of many traditional Chinese input methods). You might wish to take a look at a previous discussion on this subject (#17-#19) -> http://www.chinese-f...43entry143543

And also this -> http://www.chinese-f...9041-%e8%91%97/

[vinta]

Dear Shi Tong:

It’s glad to know that you are learning Chinese and interested in TOP test. The overseas TOP test in UK is administered by the Cultural Division of Taipei Economic Cultural Office. It’s a pity that the TOP tests in UK this year were pilot test and they were all finished. But there is still TOP test in UK next year, and the date and test fee is not announced yet.

As you mentioned the TOP certificate, it can serve as a Chinese proficiency credential for applying for the “Taiwan Scholarship”, admission to the academic programs at colleges or universities in Taiwan and serving as a job-required proof of Chinese language proficiency. If you plan to join the TOP test next year, welcome you directly contact the Cultural Division, Taipei Representative Office in the U.K. Tel: (44-207) 436-5888, Email: eduuk@btconnect.com or london@mail.moe.gov.tw. If you have any question related to the TOP test, please feel free to contact us: service@sc-top.org.tw . Thank you very much.

Sincerely

SC-TOP

[Shi Tong]

Thanks Vinta, I will!!