use of zhei/ nei

[etribe]

Hi there,

i have some questions regarding the use of zhei4 and nei4:

a) is this a more common way of saying 'this' and 'that' compared to zhe4 and na4 in China?

B) is it possible to say zhei(er) and nei(er) to say 'here' and 'there' in a similar way to saying zhe(er)/ na®

regards

etribe

[renzhe]

a) is this a more common way of saying 'this' and 'that' compared to zhe4 and na4 in China?

Yes, it's very common in spoken language, but considered informal.

But it is so ubiquitous in spoken Chinese today that it's far more common than the "proper" pronunciation "zhe" and "na".

B) is it possible to say zhei(er) and nei(er) to say 'here' and 'there' in a similar way to saying zhe(er)/ na®

No, it doesn't always work.

Nali, zheli, nar and zher are examples where you can't alter the pronunciation.

See also a discussion that went on here.

[cababunga]

I‘ve also heard that zheige and neige are, in fact, contractions of 这一个 and 那一个。

[renzhe]

I've heard that this is how the pronunciations originated, but this is not what they mean today. zhei and nei are valid pronunciations of 这 and 那 in most cases, with some notable exceptions, like 这么, 这儿 and 这里.

For example, zheibian is not a contraction of 这一边 and neiyang is not a contraction of 那一样. They are simply colloquial ways of saying 这边 and 那样

[doraemon]

I believe I've always said 'zhei4 ge' and 'nei4 ge', it's just easier to say for some reason than 'zhe4 ge' and 'na4 ge'. I guess its more popular as well since most northerners tend to say 'zhei' and 'nei'.

[Shi Tong]

renzhe, personally I think that zhei and nei are certainly ways of specifically pointing out one or the other. I think this may be a Taiwanese thing though, because, in another thread I was also saying that in Taiwan they do say ne4 more than na4 IMO.

So a common answer to the questions: 哪一个 (na3yi2ge) would be 那一个 (ne(4)yi1ge), and this would be in common usage for finding out exactly which one of something you're looking for.

[renzhe]

Using zhei for zhe does not alter the meaning of 这, IMHO.

这样 is read "zheiyang". It has exactly the same meaning as "zheyang".

If you're reading Lu Xun outloud in class, you will always pronounce it as "zheyang". If you're talking to your friends in the park, you will always pronounce it as "zheiyang". There is no "一" in either case. "zheiyang ba" is not a contraction of "这一样吧".

It's a matter of register. It is not used in formal speech, and it is used almost exclusively in colloquial speech, especially in the north.

If you want to specifically point one or the other, then you say "zhei yige" and "nei yige".

Anyway, the dictionaries seem to agree:

http://www.nciku.com/search/cc/detail/这/8454

这 [zhèi]

1. pronoun this

这 [zhèi]

1. 用于口语。

2. E参见"这(ｚｈè)"的提示((BZ1))。

Edited April 8, 2010 at 01:16 PM by renzhe