help with history of the chinese language

[SnoopyRules]

I'm doing an essay on the history of the Chinese language, especially of Chinese characters. Does anybody know anything or any good websites?

[Nina]

Try going to this site then clicking on "Languages".

http://www.chinaknowledge.de/

If you need more help, I'll try to answer any other questions.

Good luck on the essay!

-Nina

[Claw]

I wrote a paper for my Chinese class a couple years ago entitled 漢字的起源與演變 (The Origin and Evolution of Chinese Characters). What exactly would you like to know? Here were the headings of each of the sections in my paper:

中國文字歷史 (History of the Chinese Script)

漢字結構 (Structure of Chinese Characters)

古文 (Ancient Writing)

漢字演變 (Evolution of Chinese Characters)

- 篆書 (Seal Script)

- 隸書 (Clerical Script)

- 楷書 (Standard Script)

- 行書 (Running Script)

- 細明體 (Small Ming Type - used in printing)

- 简体字 (Simplified Characters)

If you have any questions on any of these topics, I would be glad to answer them.

[Claw]

I should also mention that the following links have some good information:

http://www.omniglot.com/writing/chinese.htm

http://www.omniglot.com/writing/chinese_evolution.htm

http://www.cjvlang.com/Writing/writsys/writchin.html

http://www.ancientscripts.com/chinese.html

I have some other links too that I saved when I was doing research on my paper. I'll dig them up and post them later.

[Nina]

Thanks for the wonderful links, Claw.

In your research, did you come across a site that showed the Oracle Bone, Bronze, Seal and Traditional characters for all of the Chinese characters? Possibly a dictionary or database?

Thank you-

Nina

[Claw]

Unfortunately not. I just used the examples of the particular characters that were shown on the links that I posted. However, you may be able to find fonts that are in seal script or clerical script and then type out Chinese using those fonts. I don't think there exist any fonts for oracle bone or bronze script since they existed before the Qin unification of script and were not standardized.

[Ole]

Hi Nina ,

In your research, did you come across a site that showed the Oracle Bone, Bronze, Seal and Traditional characters for all of the Chinese characters? Possibly a dictionary or database ?

I don´t quite understand, why you ask this question, after you provided

this Forum with this fabulous link to

http://www.internationalscientific.org/chin_home.aspx

see Nina´s post from Tue Jul 06, 2004 8:01 am

Ole

[Nina]

Hi Ole-

Thanks for posting that link again for those who are interested. It's a wonderful source.

I've just found some discrepancies between the ancient characters in my different sources, and I'm always looking for other opinions.

-Nina

[Ole]

Hi again,

you might be interested in the freely distributed Mojikyo fonts.

here

It seems to be the most elaborated stuff in terms of ever used

characters.

have fun,

Ole

[SnoopyRules]

Thank you everbody for that help, especially Claw and Nina. How did you find all those websites? I spent ages on the internet and I only found loads on the Cultural Revolution, which I am including in my essay. What was that about fonts? Is there a font in Chinese where you can type characters in ancient script or something?

And one more thing that I don't understand is what is the difference between Seal Script, Running script, Cursive script and all that? Are they different styles used in the same period or were they commonly used at different times? Are they still practiced now? Thanks for the help.

[Claw]

What was that about fonts? Is there a font in Chinese where you can type characters in ancient script or something?

There are Chinese fonts out there that allow you to type in Seal Script or Clerical Script. You probably would have to buy them since I don't know of any free ones.

And one more thing that I don't understand is what is the difference between Seal Script, Running script, Cursive script and all that? Are they different styles used in the same period or were they commonly used at different times? Are they still practiced now?

They were different styles that were invented during different periods. When most people refer to Seal Script, they refer to Small Seal Script (小篆), which is the script that was in use after the Qin unification of script. Before this was Large Seal Script (大篆), used from the 9th century BC to 3rd century BC. It came about when people started using brushes to write instead of etching it in bone or metal, as in Oracle Bone Script and Bronze Script. However, Large Seal Script was not standardized and one character may have several different ways of writing it. During the Qin dynasty (3rd century BC), the writing was reformed and it became Small Seal Script. Almost all of our modern character forms can be traced back to the Qin unification of script.

Small Seal Script is still written by some calligraphers, mostly for formal occassions. The character strokes are very smooth and round and the lines all have the same width. It's not used in everyday life since the characters have evolved enough that many people aren't able to readily recognize them.

During the Han dynasty (3rd century BC to 3rd century AD), the characters began to take their more recognizable modern forms. Clerical Script (隸書) was the first iteration of this, where the round strokes of Seal Script became straight and angular strokes. Although there are differences in stroke lengths and widths, and minor differences in some characters, Clerical Script looks pretty much like our modern characters.

Near the end of the Han dynasty, Standard Script (楷書) finally came about. The brush strokes of Standard Script are more balanced and pleasing to the eye than Clerical Script, and it is the current script that is used by people today. It has essentially remained unchanged for almost 2000 years to the present day.

Running Script (行書) and Cursive/Grass Script (草書) are essentially based on Standard Script, but are more free-flowing. They're more used more for art than for actual documents. The brush strokes are fast and many strokes may be combined into one continuous stroke. The emphasis is on the shape of the character rather than the individual strokes. Many calligraphers and artists today use their own variants of Running or Cursive Script.

[Spartan087]

There are Chinese fonts out there that allow you to type in Seal Script or Clerical Script. You probably would have to buy them since I don't know of any free ones.

i don't think you need pay for the fonts if you've searched hard engough, good luck

[ralph1414]

I don't know about you, but I found almost impossible the download, installation and use of the Microsoft IME that is suggested for entering characters in the etymology search at http://www.internationalscientific.org/chin_home.aspx

Which is a very good site in all other respects.

Then I found it very easy to _copy_ characters from a source and _paste_ them into the box. For instance, from Clavis Sinica....

I couldn't make heads or tails of the 'soft keyboard' in the IME! But then I'm a beginner at Chinese, though not a computers.

[Nina]

Hi Ralph-

When I first found that site, I was jumping for joy (since I'm researching the primitive characters).

I use an emac, and there were no instructions for how to access the site with a mac, so I thought I was going to have no access to all that wonderful stuff. Then a mac computer forum suggested that I use Safari instead of IE, and presto! it worked.

The only way I've found to enter characters into the search box there is to cut and paste them from another source (I use Wenlin or an on-line dictionary).

If you have suggestions for making that site easier to access, why don't you email Richard Sears, who put the whole thing together? His email address is found by clicking on "Comments and Suggestions" on the intro page. He's a very nice person, and I'm sure he would welcome any help you might offer. I told him about using Safari for macs, and he's included that info on his site.

May I ask why you have an interest in the primitive characters?

-Nina

[Ole]

There are Chinese fonts out there that allow you to type in Seal Script or Clerical Script. You probably would have to buy them since I don't know of any free ones

There is a commercial site, where you find a charmap for the Seal Script:

here

have fun,

Ole

[ralph1414]

Hi Nina,

Prior to reading your post I had written to Richard Sears and copied him on my earlier post to this group.

He responded to me immediately and we decided my particular problem was that I'm using Windows 98.

He said he would be updating and revising his instructions for using his site including a note about copy and paste.

I'm a beginner calligrapher and have been studying and practicing daily for about a year and a half. Since I'm 66 yrs old I don't expect to become a master in this lifetime but my master, who studied with Xi Baishi and received a classical education in painting and calligraphy while still in China, continues to encourage me.

I've been concentrating on seal script and have now begun to find online the resources for characters that I was looking for although translating to and from seal script and reading and writing Chinese at sight are still far beyond me. I just hope to be able to render some couplets and poems for pleasure and sharing with friends.

regards to all,

[Nina]

Hi again, Ralph-

I'm glad Richard is trying to help you to access his site. He not only has the various Seal characters on his site, but also the Bronze and Oracle Bone inscriptions. Did you try copying and pasting characters from an on-line dictionary? I hope you can work out the problems. In the mean time, I could try emailing you a link to one of the pages. When I couldn't access his site at first, a friend of mine sent me a link and it opened fine in my email. Which character would you like me to try?

Of course, you could always upgrade - if you're in the PC realm, computers are very reasonably priced right now. I kicked and screamed when I had to get rid of my old imac and buy a new emac, but it's been well worth it!

You're practicing caligraphy? Good for you! When I think of caligraphy, I think of using a brush and ink and letting your hand fly over the page with abandon. How do you write the Seal characters using a brush? They seem to be a little more linear and graphic. I like writing them with a finepoint roller pen - no flourishes for me! :-) But it does seem like a form of meditation, as it really calms my mind.

Another "oldster" (but never too old)-

Nina

[SnoopyRules]

Thank you everybody, I've finally finished my essay, if you all still remember about it, and thank you all very much for the websites and help. But I going to carry on watching this forum because I'm quite interested now!