Help understanding a sentence in Chinese

[Don_Horhe]

I came across a sentence in the preface to Wang Xiaobo's 革命时期的爱情 which I can't really understand. It's basically the first phrase and the function&meaning of 在 in the second part.

性爱受到了自身力量的推动，但自发地做一件事在有的时候是不许可的，这就使事情变得非常的复杂。

What I make of the first part is something along the lines of "Sexual love is driven by it's own force", but it sounds like rubbish.

[sebhk]

..., but it sounds like rubbish

Rubbish written in Chinese is still rubbish when translated into English. No surprises here.

[xiaocai]

I think maybe 性爱 is better translated as sex here.

So how about Sex is often spontaneous?

Rubbish written in Chinese is still rubbish when translated into English. No surprises here.

I don't know how you came to the conclusion that it is rubbish written in Chinese and I will certainly not agree with you on that.

[Kenny同志]

VERY badly written.

[Don_Horhe]

Wow, I'm surprised to see replies that it's badly written - I thought 王小波 was an author well-received by pretty much everyone, especially younger people.

Anyway, the first part is clear, I think xiaocai's translation as "Sex is often spontaneous" is quite good.

What about the 在 in 但自发地做一件事在有的时候是不许可的? I still can't figure out what it's doing there.

[Kenny同志]

Stick with reliable writers, I mean, conservatives if one wants to learn good Chinese.

Edited May 5, 2010 at 11:35 PM by kenny2006woo

[Don_Horhe]

I'll keep that in mind, thanks!

[skylee]

Is that preface also written by Wang Xiaobo?

IMHO, a good writer being a good writer is not always because he writes in good Chinese. Sometimes people like a writer for his creativity, or for his courage, or for the unique way he writes, etc. People need alternatives. If everyone writes in textbook language, what's the fun of reading? But then, for learners I agree that they should probably stick with "reliable" writers.

[perspectives]

IMHO, a good writer being a good writer is not always because he writes in good Chinese.

Agreed! Same thing applies to any other languages as well. I like Mark Twain's Huckleberry Finn, but his work is full of the so-called 'non-standard ' English, which is perhaps viewed as vulgar to the canon. However, I love his description, full of energy and fun. Sick of the theory that it's a must to 文以載道, language itself does not necessarily to serve for any philosophical / theological / the so-called '道' doctrines. Why can't it be art for art's sake?!

for learners I agree that they should probably stick with "reliable" writers.

At least the quotation marks leave a lot of room to interprete. It's at least not so arbitrary.

[xiaocai]

What about the 在 in 但自发地做一件事在有的时候是不许可的? I still can't figure out what it's doing there.

在...的时候, I think it is considered a fixed structure.

As for who are "reliable writers", everyone has their own standard. I like 王小波, because his works remind me that Chinese is a living language which we still use in our daily life, not the dead one that only exists in textbooks.

[natra]

As a random side note: Wang Xiaobo came up once in translation studies class I was taking last semester. The professor told us that reading him is very different from other writers because the language he uses carries strong connotations of the Cultural Revolution for people in his generation. However, younger Chinese students generally cannot grasp those same meanings now.

[Don_Horhe]

Yeah, 在...的时候 is clear, but reading that phrase out loud just doesn't sound right to me. If it was me, I'd write "但自发地做一件事有的时候是不许可的", without 在 in there.

[Kenny同志]

As in most cases, 在 can be left out in the second sentence.

那时候还没有电脑。

在那时候还没有电脑。

Another structure one should always be on the lookout for is 当......的时候. Avoid it at all costs.

Edited May 7, 2010 at 06:02 AM by kenny2006woo

[skylee]

Yeah, 在...的时候 is clear, but reading that phrase out loud just doesn't sound right to me. If it was me, I'd write "但自发地做一件事有的时候是不许可的", without 在 in there.

I agree.

[xiaocai]

Probably it is because that you don't have you use any preposition with "sometimes" in English, or some similar situation in your own first language?

Well in Chinese it is mostly optional, but I'd say it all depends on your personal preference. I don't think one is better than another in this case.