"foreigner" in Chinese

[Glenn]

I find it a bit surprising to see that in Chinese people find what's essentially "black (people)" to be offensive, and instead use something like "friend from Africa". It's surprisingly similar to the use of the English term "African American". The problems it presents are similar as well, although 來自非洲的朋友 is slightly better. This whole conversation makes me semi-seriously wonder when political correctness made it to China.

[trien27]

Snip. No need to quote the entire post from one above.

Not all black people were born in Africa, even though their ancestors might be. Saying 來自非洲的朋友 only mentions those who came from Africa [born & raised on the African continent, but saying the specific country might be better, especially in Chinese. Even people consider Egypt to be a part of the Middle East, in Chinese, it's geographical, so therefore, it's a part of Africa, too. = 來自埃及的朋友.]

[Shi Tong]

Glenn, as far as I'm concerned, this isn't "our" language (at least, it's not mine), so therefore I cant really comment on what is supposed to be offensive or not.

I mean, you have to remember that there are several phrases in English which could be considered racist (or not), depending on where you're from and from what time it came from:

Black person seems to be the newest way of saying black, but Negro was very common before. It was only because it had an association with the racist term "Nigger" that it became less desirable to call someone a Negro, and I wouldn't say that in essence the word is racist (Negro just means Black in Latin languages like Italian).

We also had "Mixed blood" when it came to people from mixed backgrounds, which seemed perfectly acceptable up until about 10 years ago, and I still dont really see how it's supposed to be racist. In fact, I would have thought it is less racist calling someone mixed (IMO), because then at least it means that the individual can "call" themselves what they want, or gives them a chance to explain their background (instead of "having" to be called "Black".. not that there's anything wrong with being black,) instead of it being hoised on them (like Obama who is half white half black). It also seems to me that some people like being called black (which is fine) because they like to indentify themselves with that culture. I remember Tiger Woods famously saying that he was NOT black, because he was from more of an Asian background than Black (that being I think a mixture of 3/4 asian to 1/4 black).

Then some people call people with "mixed blood" "coloured".. again, this term is very taboo because in South Africa it was used to differentiate those who were white from black and therefore segregate them.

Then we have what I think to be actually quite a mish mash of what could be concievably racist ways of terming people from the east. In England, nearly everyone who is from a far eastern background in Ethnic terms (thats Japanese, Chinese, Singaporean, Indonesian, etc, etc, etc...) are mostly termed as Chinese (at least on Ethnic background charts for the NHS), and therefore it leaves a lot of people with a very different background with very few choices of Ethnicity. Then we have Asians who are from the sub continent and we call them Asian- Indian, Pakistani and Bangladeshi.. so.. that's quite odd.

We also have changed the word "Racialist" to "Racist".

So surely it's up to the people who are actually using the language every day to decide what is "politically correct" or "offensive" or not, and personally I would see why people could be offended by being called "our African friend" or "Black person", because either one can be insulting, it just depends on how it is conveyed.

[Glenn]

Just for the sake of accuracy and conciseness, not being able to use 黑人 because it sounds racist and instead having to use something like 來自非洲的朋友 would be a shame. I understand languages don't work on logic, but 1) 黑人 goes better with 白人 as a pair, 2) it's more accurate in its description (not all black people are from Africa; not all Africans are black), and 3) it's way shorter and less of a mouthful. Yes, I'm ignoring the usage currently and historically in China of the term 黑人 and the culture it's been used in, but that wasn't really my concern with the point I raised. Of course, the point could be made that 黑人 isn't all that accurate, but neither is 白人. They're parallel in that regard, which is why 黑人 is more appropriate to use than an entire phrase in my way of thinking. I'm not saying it doesn't sound offensive sometimes or to some people, and I'm not saying that everyone should use it to refer to black people; I'm just saying logic and conciseness lose if it isn't. But again, that's not exactly what language operates under (well... conciseness does play a role).

This brings up some more questions for me: how are Asians referred to? are they split up by area (for instance 東亞洲人, 西亞洲人, and all other permutations thereof), or is it just 亞洲人? Or are none of those used? Is 黃人 acceptable, or completely off-limits, or somewhere in between (this one is pretty racist in English...)?

[Shi Tong]

One thing I've always thought amusing is the way that the Taiwanese (and Chinese I'm guessing) refer to 東亞洲人, 西亞洲人 or wherever they're from in the 亞洲 region, they always just describe themselves by their nationality.

So in other words, they're called 韓国人, 日本人, 印尼人 etc, etc, etc (sorry for splicing my simplified with traditional characters.. too much cutting and pasting I fear).

Which I always find a bit galling, because I'm either called 白人, 老外 or 美国人.

But then I suppose that's because to them, we're all 白人, 老外 or 美国人, and to us they're all 亞洲人 or, if we're being rude, 黃人.

I think for simplicity that 黑人 and 白人 are definately better choices and are easier to use in the language (especially for US people), but that doesn't mean they should use it themselves. Though, I've never really heard 黑人 and 白人 used as specific insults which have a loaded meaning.

[trien27]

Check this out:

http://www.waze.net/china/laowai.php , http://answers.yahoo.com/question/index?qid=20100417183011AAHBPwo , http://english.peopledaily.com.cn/90001/90780/91345/6325229.html , http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Laowai & http://blog.foolsmountain.com/2009/04/15/how-should-foreigners-feel-about-being-called-%E9%AC%BC%E5%AD%90-%E9%AC%BC%E4%BD%AC-%E8%80%81%E5%A4%96-etc/

especially the last link.

[eatfastnoodle]

You missed a few:

毛子： Russians.

骆驼/缠头：Arabs or generally Muslims.

小巴/巴铁: Pakistanis.

洋马: Foreign girls, usually white girls.

老墨: Mexicans, usually used by Chinese students in America.

老中: Chinese students in America calling themselves.

港灿: People from Hong Kong.

台巴子：People from Taiwan.

大家拿人：Canadians.

包皮国人：Israelis.

红脖子：literary translation of rednecks.

[eatfastnoodle]

and terms used to describe other stuff，mostly internet slangs, don't use it in real life, it's not politically correct:

狗狗: google

老将: people who're anti-current PRC government, usually older, usually used among Chinese living in America.

小将: people who're pro or at least more anti-Western than anti- PRC government, usually used among Chinese living in America.

我老: internet slang, used among Chinese living in America to describe themselves.

外F: Chinese girls who marry non-Chinese guys, usually used among Chinese living in America.

金小胖／金 fucking/金二世: kim jung il.

奥黑/巴马: Barack Obama.

小布：George.W Bush

脸书: facebook, usually used among Chinese living in America.

老二/孔老二: Confucian.

常公/常凯申:chiang kai-shek;

孙大炮：sun yat-sen.

南蛮子/南蛮: Southern barbarians, used by Northerns to describe Southerners.

TG/土鳖国/土共: people from PRC calling PRC or CCP, may or may not pro or anti-CCP.

MD/美帝: good ol' USA, may or may not pro or anti-America.

SB会： world expo in Shanghai.

陈SB: former Taiwan President.

文科傻妞/文科生/文学青年/文青：people who don't major in science/technology in college, instead, they major in literature, politics, linguistics, etc. Among people who major in science/technology, they're considered lack training in technology/science/math, generally whose opinion more rooted in feel-good politics than things that actually work in real life, mostly used among people, especially guys who know, or think they know something, about science and technology.

[xianhua]

杂毛 seems to be a favoured term for foreigners in 摩登家庭.

[andelicek.andy]

when chinese address me annoying 老外 everywhere around when walk down street, may i answer 老内? (as a half-joke...)

[roddy]

Every other foreigner in China has done it at some point, so yeah, go on . . .