imminent action pattern

[aprose1977]

This is from Chinese in Steps Vol.2 Chapter 20: Can anyone translate and explain the difference between these three patterns? The book says that it is to do with the imminence of the action in the case of 2 and 3 but I can’t quite work out the meaning of the sentence. It seems like it should be so simple!

1) 我要去北京了。

2) 我就要去北京了。and,

3) 我快要去北京了。

Thanks in advance for your help and thank God I have found this forum at last!

[edelweis]

1) I will go to Beijing (at some time in the future)

2) and 3) I am about to go to Beijing (right now)

I think there is a slight difference of usage between kuaiyao...le and jiuyao...le. But what exactly I don't know.

[KonW]

i think there's no acutal difference,

but maybe 就要 is sooner than 快要? maybe,,but certainly no one can be sure

you hear 2 ppl tell you that they're about to go to beijing, one said 就要 and the other said 快要, it's possible that the one said 快要 went earlier than the other one though

[renzhe]

1) I will go / am planning to go to Beijing

2) I'm going to Beijing right now

3) I'm going to Beijing soon

[aprose1977]

Thank you both for your help!

[Shi Tong]

The thing that I think is most confusing about these sentences is the inclusion of the word 了. If it wasn't there, there would be a more evident difference. Here's why:

了- basically means "already", so to say 我要去北京 means "I'm going to Beijing" and then add the 了 means already.. it's almost like saying "I'm going to Beijing already".

If it was missing in all three it would look like this:

1) 我要去北京. I want go Beijing- in other words "I want to go to Beijing". It has an indeterminate time frame.

2) 我就要去北京. 就 means "at once" or "imminantly", so, "I am imminently going to Beijing". This has a more determinate time frame. It means you're definately going.

3) 我快要去北京. 快 means "imminantly" as well as "quickly" but can also mean "soon", so, "I am going to Beijing soon". This means you're going there in the immediate future.

So.. I would agree that it intensifies as it goes down the list, IMO, but again the 了, IMO, is confusing.

[SiMaKe]

I believe 了 is there to confirm the sense of change of circumstance (i.e., it is now imminent or planned, as before it wasn't) not as a completed action marker (or other uses).

(就/快)要。。。了is a standard construction indicating probability or likelihood that is not simply chance but rather is imminent or planned.

(c.f. Yip and Rimmington - A Comprehensive Grammar)

[edelweis]

I'm confused.

My book (Chinese Grammar Without Tears) mentions 4 patterns for indication of the future/near future in spoken language.

These are:

要 (future, ambiguous since it can also mean "want to")

要。。。了 (future, unambiguous)

快要。。。了 (about to happen)

就要。。。了 (about to happen)

Can 快要 and 就要 be used without 了 to indicate that something is about to happen?

[anonymoose]

Can 快要 and 就要 be used without 了 to indicate that something is about to happen?

Yes they can. Search "快要" and "就要" on Google for examples.

Also, note that the imminence expressed by the 快要/就要...了 pattern is relative to the timeframe under discussion. It doesn't necessarily mean right now, this second. For example, it could mean within a million years when considering the evolution of the universe.

[SiMaKe]

Clearly anonymoose is correct that the 了 is not required. Whether to include or exclude depends what is intended (the context).

Here is how the distinction is described in Li & Thompson.

"Often 了 is used to announce that a new state of affairs is just about to be realized (yes, it could be a million years), and the hearer is expected to make an "appropriate" response.

小黄就要来。

Little Huang will be here soon. (a simple neutral comment or an answer to a question)

小黄就要来了。

(Hurry!) Little Huang is about to arrive (so "put your pants on", "hide the gifts", etc).“

[edelweis]

thanks SiMaKe & anonymoose... I think it's clearer now.

[Shi Tong]

a-ha....

I would say 小黄就来了 or even 小黄来了.

IMO, this makes it clearer, since the event is happening now- why bother adding in all the extra (IMO pointless) words?

Of course, because this is about making things clearer in states of "what's exactly happening", you can make them clearer by elaboration or exaggeration-

小黄马上来了 can suggest that he's already on his way/ he's nearly here, it also suggests speed.

小黄很快就来了 can also suggest that he's about to arrive.

It's a bit like adding 很,真,超级,非常 in degrees of immediacy instead of intencity, so the quicker he will arrive, the more elaboration/ exaggeration you can add to make it all clear.

[xiaocai]

Can 快要 and 就要 be used without 了 to indicate that something is about to happen?

I think they can, but the example given in previous posts such as 我就要去北京/我快要去北京 sound a bit incomplete to me. The meaning doesn't change much with or without the 了 but it just feels a bit unnatural if the 了 is dropped.

[Shi Tong]

Actually, in a way I dropped the 了 for an example... since IMO, if you add the 了 at the ends of those sentences, it's almost inconstructive because you're saying "already" at the end of every sentence-- so-- IMO, every time, you're going to Beijing already, regardless of the "intensity" of speed.

Let me give another example where a 了 is not required.

我想吃 is less intense than 我要吃.. to give a good view on how close you are getting to eating something you can add 了, 我要吃了-- I'm going to eat it already (I'm going to eat it now). You can also add jiu4 and kuai4 as intensity of speed markers, and you always add a 了-- 我快要吃了 means "I'm about to eat it" the implication here is that it's about to arrive in your mouth, or you're planning on the eating and giving your friend a warning that you're about to start. 我就要吃了 means the same thing again-- I'm absolutely going to eat it, and the implication here is that you will be eating (it) soon or it's a definate plan.. even if it requires going out to buy it.

Hope this helps some more.

[xiaocai]

Actually, in a way I dropped the 了 for an example... since IMO, if you add the 了 at the ends of those sentences, it's almost inconstructive because you're saying "already" at the end of every sentence-- so-- IMO, every time, you're going to Beijing already, regardless of the "intensity" of speed.

I don't think you can simply translate all the 了 to "already" though, I don't think it works that way.

Let me give another example where a 了 is not required.

Where is the example?

[Shi Tong]

In the 我想吃 / 我要吃 / 我要吃了 example, because you can say 我想吃 / 我要吃 without having to add 了. A little like 我要去北京 in my opinion, because you can say 我想去北京/ 我要去北京 which means "I want to go to Beijing" or "I want to go to Beijing" with different intensities. But to add a 了, IMO adds the implication that this is a definate thing, whereas even 我要去北京 doesn't actually mean you're going. An example of a conversation might be:

a) "我要去北京"

b ) "你什么时候要去"

a) "我要去可是没钱去了"

To make it clearer for the first sentence if the speaker is not completely definate would be to add 很想 before the 要.

I don't think you can simply translate all the 了 to "already" though, I don't think it works that way.

Well, I know that, but it's a useful way to think of this word. If we want to really take a very close look-

了- le​- (modal particle intensifying preceding clause) / (completed action marker)

So in other words, it intensifies the sentence (我要吃/ 我要吃了) the first being "I want to eat it", and the second being a completion of your intention almost like - "I am going to eat it now".

Completed action marker basically means "already", 我去过北京了, "I've (already) been to Beijing before", 东西已经买了, "I've (already) bought the stuff (already)", 信写完了 "The letter is written (already)".