use of zěnme

[etribe]

Hi guys, need your help on two sentence constructions:

1. what does this mean: 'Zhōngguórén shì zěnme guò nián de ne?' i think the sentence refers to a previous sentence on the occurrence of Chinese New Year, in which case how does the 'de ne' rule work?

2. 'Hé xīfāngrén guò Shèngdànjié chā bù duō...' is 'Hé....guò' a specific grammer rule like 'Hé....yī yàng' for example

regards

etribe

[edelweis]

1. 'Zhōngguórén shì zěnme guò nián de ne?'

(and/but) how do the Chinese celebrate the New Year?

There is no "de ne" rule that I am aware of. I think this is the "shi...de" pattern (emphasis) + "ne" which I would translate as "and" or "but" or maybe "what about..."

2. 'Hé xīfāngrén guò Shèngdànjié chā bù duō...'

Roughly like Westerners celebrate Christmas.

In this instance "cha4 bù duō" does not mean simply "almost", it has the meaning of "almost the same". So I would think if there is a pattern, then it's "Hé ... cha4 bù duō".

In these sentences, "guò" followed by a holiday name has the meaning of "celebrate" (cross over a holiday).

[kudra]

If you dropped the ne, then it's asking how Chinese people pass(spend/celebrate) the new year.

The way I read this is shi is an equal sign, so A shi B, or in this case Zhōngguórén shì B, means that B should be a noun.

The noun B is zěnme guò nián de rén, but the rén is obvious so it's dropped here.

Seems to me, the ne just softens the question, or makes the verb continuing action or both.

regarding

'Hé xīfāngrén guò Shèngdànjié chā bù duō...

This seems to be the answer to the first question right? The pattern is he X chabuduo, or he X yiyang, or whatever.

In this case X is just "xīfāngrén guò Shèngdànjié" so I don't think guo here is related or depends on guo.

[Lu]

'shi' is not an equal sign, and no 'ren' is dropped: this is the shi... de construction, like edelweis said.

[Melody Wang]

Zhōngguórén shì zěnme guò nián de ne?

中国人是怎么过年的呢？/How do Chinese people celebrate(or spend) their Spring Festival?

"de ne" here is the pinyin of “的呢”. The two characters can be considered as an idiomatic expression of a "question" sentence and can not be omitted, especially after a verb or a verbal phrase. In your example, "过年“, literally means "celebrating Chinese Spring Festival", is exactly a verbal phrase. Another example, "How did you achieve it?" can be translated into "你是怎么做到的呢？" "de ne" is used after the verb "achieve"（做到） to make the sentence sound natural and complete.

P.S. Traditionally, "过年“ usually refers to "celebrate the Chinese Spring Festival" in Chinese lunar calendar instead of New Year's Day（元旦，Yuan Dan） in solar calendar. Besides, in our daily conversation, the character “呢” in the above situation can be omitted and the question sentence can be "zhong guo ren shi zenme guo nian de"? "ni shi zenme zuo dao de?

Hé xīfāngrén guò Shèngdànjié chā bù duō

和西方人过圣诞节差不多。 It is just similar with what the westerner celebrate their Christmas Day.

In this example, "和……差不多" refers to almost(nearly) the same, but not exactly the same.

”和……一样“ refers to exactly the same.

Another example, "How about Susan's test score of Math?"

If one answers as "和我差不多”（he wo cha bu duo）， that means their score is close but not the same.

If one answers as "我我一样“ （he wo yi yang), that means their score is exactly the same.

[muirm]

'shi' is not an equal sign, and no 'ren' is dropped: this is the shi... de construction

I think he was alluding to the fact that (usually) shi is used to connect/compare two nouns (as opposed to English's "to be", which has a broader usage). Based on my understanding, "shi ... de" construction always has an implied second noun after the de, it is just often omitted.

[Melody Wang]

In the example sentence we discussed, the "shi...de(ne)" construction can be also omitted in oral Chinese. We can just question as "中国人怎么过年？”（Zhōngguórén zěnme guò nián?)

Based on my understanding, "shi ... de" construction always has an implied second noun after the de, it is just often omitted.

"de" just can be understood as an idiomatic way with "shi", literally not a "hidden" second noun to be omitted.

[creamyhorror]

I think he was alluding to the fact that (usually) shi is used to connect/compare two nouns (as opposed to English's "to be"' date=' which has a broader usage). Based on my understanding, "shi ... de" construction always has an implied second noun after the de, it is just often omitted.[/quote']

Er, do you have any sources stating this? Because I doubt that's how native speakers think of it. If a second noun did indeed exist and wasn't omitted, we would expect the meaning the remain the same. But consider:

我是在公园里找到那只狗的。 ==》 我是在公园里找到那只狗的人。

That second sentence has a very different emphasis from the first. The first one says, "It was in the park that I found that dog", and the second says, "I am the person who found that dog in the park."

Then you have the case of "是我在公园里找到那只狗的。" What's being equated to what, here?

The usual way to think about 是。。。的 is probably:

我在公园里找到那只狗。

[insert shi and de, positioned for emphasis - 是 goes directly before the aspect you want to emphasise]

==> (是)我在公园里找到那只狗(的)

==> 我(是)在公园里找到那只狗(的)

==> 我在公园里(是)找到那只狗(的)

(There are times when a noun is used after de, but that's because it's been transposed (?) from where it would more commonly be - before the de. For example, "他是今年一月份結的婚" instead of "他是今年一月份結婚的". This is apparently used for emphasis on the verb (IIRC), although I don't use it myself.)

[kudra]

Er, do you have any sources stating this? Because I doubt that's how native speakers think of it.

I thought I learned this in 1st semester from Huang and Stimpson but it's been a while so I could be mistaken. As for native speakers, unless they are teaching grammar, I don't suppose they think about it at all.

[yeng_raimike]

Oh.. this is very helpful. I read each and every comment here. Thank you very much. Now I learnt something new.