website Posted September 30, 2004 at 09:06 PM Report Share Posted September 30, 2004 at 09:06 PM I went out today and had a few conversations in Chinese. Could someone tell me if my grammar is correct? I am sure my tones were okay. Conversation 1 at McDonald's: Weishenme ni kan ta? Wo diancai chifan, bu ta. Ni bu dong wo, ma? Ni bu limao. Wo shi da ren. Wo bu xuyao bangmang. Zhege shi Zhongguo, weishenme ni shuo Yingwen? Conversation 2 with apartment sales girl: Ni mai shenme? Shenme shihou you ren banjia zhege gongyu? (When will people move into here?) Also, how do I say "talk behind my back"? Xiexie. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
geraldc Posted September 30, 2004 at 09:45 PM Report Share Posted September 30, 2004 at 09:45 PM The first one's not a conversation. It's a rant. So the scene is a westerner in an American restaurant, in a predominently Cantonese speaking area, shouting at the staff in Mandarin for talking to him in English..? Try learning some courtesy as well as grammar. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Green Pea Posted October 1, 2004 at 01:05 AM Report Share Posted October 1, 2004 at 01:05 AM Way to go, website! Keep up the pressure and don't back down. My approach would be a little different though. I wouldn't ask people if they understand me because it gives them to chance to say 'no'. Also, I wouldn't try to rationalize. They just won't get the logic and you give them time to not understand you. Lastly, I wouldn't even acknowledge to them that they are speaking English. I would just launch into your order routine. Don't worry about geraldc. He doesn't know what he is talking about. Shenzhen is not predominately Cantonese speaking except for maybe 1km around the Lowu border where the Hong Kong day trippers go. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
geraldc Posted October 1, 2004 at 01:45 AM Report Share Posted October 1, 2004 at 01:45 AM Don't worry about geraldc. He doesn't know what he is talking about I know to be polite to people. Website admits his Mandarin isn't very good. So why shout at people when they don't understand him (and when you're not even sure you if are shouting at them using the correct grammar patterns)? It seems from the dialogue that there's obviously a break down in communication between Website and the McDonalds staff. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
roddy Posted October 1, 2004 at 01:58 AM Report Share Posted October 1, 2004 at 01:58 AM I know to be polite to people. Well said. Watch the word order on your 'weishenme's - 你为什么 . . . ' would be better, I think. And 'zenme' could be useful - more 'how come' than 'why' However, I think Green Pea is right in that you should just continue with your order - if you actually want the counter staff to answer all those questions, take them out for a drink later. Ni mai shenme? Shenme shihou you ren banjia zhege gongyu? What's the first bit meant to be? What are you selling? Second part I would say as Zhe (ge? jia? zuo?) gongyu shenme shihou you ren ban jinlai This (MW) apartment block what time have people move in Roddy Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Green Pea Posted October 1, 2004 at 03:13 AM Report Share Posted October 1, 2004 at 03:13 AM I know to be polite to people.Website admits his Mandarin isn't very good. So why shout at people when they don't understand him (and when you're not even sure you if are shouting at them using the correct grammar patterns)? Did he say he was shouting or are you assuming it? Let's ask him. website, were you shouting? Were you being impolite? Were you responding to people cutting in front of you? I know I often say stuff like he did with a big smile and grin on my face. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
amperel Posted October 1, 2004 at 05:15 AM Report Share Posted October 1, 2004 at 05:15 AM sometimes you don't need to shout to be impolite. attitude and manner people! and the way you say things make a big difference. and what do you mean by "bu ta"? you mean to say not her? if yes then it should be " bu shi ta." also your use of comma is strange. you don't need to pause before you say "ma." and i think you mean to say "banjing zhege gongyu" instead of "banjia." well from what i read *and* if people "understand" what you're saying - i'd say mission accomplished and congratulation! you've succeeded at scaring strangers away and humiliating them at the same time! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
website Posted October 1, 2004 at 05:37 AM Author Report Share Posted October 1, 2004 at 05:37 AM I had a bad day with hearing "laowai" every 10 minutes and I was tired of being hassled at that McDonald's. I meant to be rude, I just wanted to know if my grammar was right. I am not sure what the difference in meaning is between: Shenme shihou you ren banjia zhege gongyu. (When have people move into this apartment.) and Zhege gongyu shenme shihou you ren ban jinlai. (This apartment when have people move into.) Is it just correct grammar or is the meaning changed? I like using this forum even if everyone thinks it's not effective for learning Zhongwen. I think most people here share a common interest in learning Chinese. People here don't need to contribute if they don't want to. On the other hand, random people on the street may be have other things on their mind besides being used as free language tutors and dictionaries by foreigners. Also, my GF is staying at her work dormitory for a few weeks because her job is too far away by bus and I'm a bit lonely. http://beyondwellbeing.com/al/laowai.shtml Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
geek_frappa Posted October 2, 2004 at 01:44 AM Report Share Posted October 2, 2004 at 01:44 AM meditation may help. meditation may not help. but it is worth a try. while you meditate, maybe try reciting the conversation with the correct grammar. i think being able to practice this type of conversation may be allow you to think quicker on your toes next time. remember, website, that there is a way to lose the argument, but gain face. :-) i have no idea how, though. however, i do know that you can calmly insult people. there is no need to let a bad day prevent you from casually insulting someone.... don't forget: you are in SZ, after all. silence is also an effective method of proving your point. sometimes silence is just as effective as yelling. something to think about ... sorry you are having a tough time. i hope things improve. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
xuechengfeng Posted October 2, 2004 at 03:02 AM Report Share Posted October 2, 2004 at 03:02 AM Watch the word order on your 'weishenme's - 你为什么 . . . ' would be better, I think. And 'zenme' could be useful - more 'how come' than 'why' Since you brought this up, I won't make another thread, and I'll just look for a concise answer and hijack the thread here Word order on wei-shenme and zenmo confuse me.. is there a set position, for example, is this correct.. 你為甚麼說英文﹖ 你做很好吃菜怎麼﹖ wei-shenmo before verb, and zenmo after?? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
roddy Posted October 2, 2004 at 03:08 AM Report Share Posted October 2, 2004 at 03:08 AM As usual, the more I think about it, the less sure I become . . . I've always but 为什么 and 怎么 between the subject and verb. Thinking about it I can imagine you might use 为什么 at the front of the sentence, but not 怎么。 You can't put 怎么 at the end of a sentence. I'm sure about that. 76% sure A lot of the time I find myself feeling more sure about grammar than I shoudl - I never really studied much Chinese grammar, I've just listened to so much that I just chuck sentences together in a way that feels 'right'. And quite often, I get them 'wrong'. Roddy Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
geek_frappa Posted October 2, 2004 at 03:32 AM Report Share Posted October 2, 2004 at 03:32 AM zenme zou? (how do i get there?) zenme yang? zenme zheme ben? (asked of me often) zenme zheme congming? (asked of me far less often) .... hmm let's experiment with some bad grammar, shall we?... zou zenme dou zhao bu zhao .... yang zenme dou bu hao kan ... *my brain hurts now...* Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
xuechengfeng Posted October 2, 2004 at 03:39 AM Report Share Posted October 2, 2004 at 03:39 AM zenme zheme ben? (asked of me often) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
roddy Posted October 2, 2004 at 03:41 AM Report Share Posted October 2, 2004 at 03:41 AM I might buy a grammar book this afternoon . . . Roddy Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
geek_frappa Posted October 2, 2004 at 04:04 AM Report Share Posted October 2, 2004 at 04:04 AM starting on page 158 ... http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/detail/-/0071377646/ xuechengfeng, do you have this book? if not, i can scan you the few pages and place them temporarily online .. i recommend buying the book, though. it's BU CUO Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
xuechengfeng Posted October 2, 2004 at 04:16 AM Report Share Posted October 2, 2004 at 04:16 AM i might get that, but do you have any other recommendations for grammar books as well? whenever i buy from amazon i like to knockout as much as possible to save on the shipping, however, you can save yip po ching's book because it's tai gui le!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
xuechengfeng Posted October 2, 2004 at 06:51 PM Report Share Posted October 2, 2004 at 06:51 PM ok i couldn't wait i got that book and yip's earlier edition Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
geek_frappa Posted October 2, 2004 at 11:03 PM Report Share Posted October 2, 2004 at 11:03 PM xcf, that was fast! which yip book did you get? i might get a yip book, too since i have complicated questions ... hey, website, how are things going? did you try the conversation patterns again? how did it work out? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
xuechengfeng Posted October 2, 2004 at 11:33 PM Report Share Posted October 2, 2004 at 11:33 PM a little older version, but i got it at a steal, 9 bucks! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
website Posted October 3, 2004 at 02:57 AM Author Report Share Posted October 3, 2004 at 02:57 AM Let's see: "zenme zheme ben" is "how stupid"?? "zenme zheme congming" is "how smart"? Right? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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