Ian_Lee Posted October 9, 2004 at 12:15 AM Report Share Posted October 9, 2004 at 12:15 AM There are quite a few American English terms like "Long Time No See", "Wok", "Kung Fu"....etc that are derived from Cantonese. And even the American slang "Gung Ho" is derived from Cantonese (HK). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TSkillet Posted October 9, 2004 at 12:58 AM Report Share Posted October 9, 2004 at 12:58 AM ketchup Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Claw Posted October 9, 2004 at 01:36 AM Report Share Posted October 9, 2004 at 01:36 AM Yep... ketchup = 茄汁 (kezap in Cantonese; the z is pronounced like ts) But actually gung ho is not derived from Cantonese, it's from 工合, the abbreviation of 中國工業合作社 (Chinese Industrial Cooperative Society). 工合 is pronounced gonghe in Mandarin, which is closer to gung ho than the Cantonese pronunciation, gung hap. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
geraldc Posted October 9, 2004 at 01:41 AM Report Share Posted October 9, 2004 at 01:41 AM typhoon Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ian_Lee Posted October 9, 2004 at 02:03 AM Author Report Share Posted October 9, 2004 at 02:03 AM 中國工業合作社 was based in HK between 1937-1941 under the directorship of Mme Sun Yat Sen. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yuchi Posted October 9, 2004 at 02:18 AM Report Share Posted October 9, 2004 at 02:18 AM typhoon Really? It sounds really similar to the mandarin version "Tai Feng", so I assumed it was from that, but I don't know Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
liuzhou Posted October 9, 2004 at 02:24 AM Report Share Posted October 9, 2004 at 02:24 AM I'm curious as to why you cite these as examples of "American" English. The are examples of English derived from Chinese, most entering the language through contacts with the British. And all are used in British English. Also, I agree that they are not all derived from Cantonese, although many are. Typhoon, Gong Fu and Gung Ho are all more likely to have come from Mandarin dialects. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TSkillet Posted October 9, 2004 at 03:04 AM Report Share Posted October 9, 2004 at 03:04 AM Typhoon, Gong Fu and Gung Ho are all more likely to have come from Mandarin dialects. I doubt that, as the majority of contact between both American and English foreigners has been via Cantonese speakers - whether that's immigrants from Guangdong to the US for the gold rush or Hong Kong. Gong Fu in Cantonese is pronouced 'gong fu' Typhoon in Cantonese is pronouced 'dai fung" I'll tycoon. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Quest Posted October 9, 2004 at 03:09 AM Report Share Posted October 9, 2004 at 03:09 AM Typhoon in Cantonese is pronouced 'dai fung" toi fung Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
liuzhou Posted October 9, 2004 at 03:34 AM Report Share Posted October 9, 2004 at 03:34 AM I agree that many, perhaps most English words from Chinese are from Cantonese, but not all. 功夫 Gong fu is pronounced gong fu in Mandarin too, so that is not going to help. It could be from either. 台风 is pronounced tai fung in Mandarin which sounds a lot closer to typhoon to me! A point to consider is when did these words enter the language? Remember that at the time the British were established in many places other than Hong Kong. Tea, for example comes from the Xiamen (Amoy) dialect. I suspect that typhoon came from Shanghai, but I can't prove it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
To Whom It May Concern Posted October 9, 2004 at 04:35 AM Report Share Posted October 9, 2004 at 04:35 AM Hi Ian_Lee...I was reading this statistic that less than 10% of English is derived from Chinese...so therefore we would have words such as 'Kung Fu' "Wok', et cetera! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
liuzhou Posted October 9, 2004 at 06:47 AM Report Share Posted October 9, 2004 at 06:47 AM less than 10% of English is derived from Chinese I'm not sure that I understand your post, but considerably less than 10% of English comes from Chinese. More like around 0.004% The Oxford Dictionary lists only 230 words (most of which are highly obscure). List here. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
roddy Posted October 9, 2004 at 07:08 AM Report Share Posted October 9, 2004 at 07:08 AM pampelmouse . . . Sharawaggi . . . what are these things in English, never mind Chinese. Nice to see splittism in there though. And why is suan-pan there? Isn't abacus good enough? Roddy Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Claw Posted October 9, 2004 at 07:34 AM Report Share Posted October 9, 2004 at 07:34 AM I think that list was generated by retrieving any entry in the dictionary that mentions the word Chinese, even if the origin is not Chinese. For instance, "cash" is on the list, and it definitely isn't Chinese in origin. I googled for Sharawaggi and found the following link: http://www.apl.ncl.ac.uk/coursework/IThompson/Informal_2.htm As we have seen, the dominant 17th century tradition in the West was still based on symmetry, order and mathematical proportion.But Sir William Temple, a diplomat by profession, wrote Upon the Gardens of Epicurus: or of Gardening in the Year 1685, which hinted at a different way of doing things, and referred to the Chinese approach to composition. Temple introduced the word sharawaggi into English to describe the asymmetrical approach of the Chinese - but note that Chinese scholars repudiate this attribution completely. (the origins of the word seem obscure) Pampelmouse appears to be a grapefruit like citrus fruit: http://www.ventanasvoyage.com/Marquesas.htm Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
889 Posted October 9, 2004 at 11:10 AM Report Share Posted October 9, 2004 at 11:10 AM Not hard to see how sharawaggi got on this list. Here's what the OED says about it: Of unknown origin; Chinese scholars agree that it cannot belong to that language. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
liuzhou Posted October 9, 2004 at 12:13 PM Report Share Posted October 9, 2004 at 12:13 PM I think that list was generated by retrieving any entry in the dictionary that mentions the word Chinese Not quite. It was retrieved by searching for any entry which mentioned Chinese in the etymology section. So, yes, there are a few spurious entries. But that only makes my point about the relative paucity of Chinese in English more valid. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alhazred Posted October 10, 2004 at 02:33 PM Report Share Posted October 10, 2004 at 02:33 PM As to pampelmousse, it is I think what you call grapefruit. I checked the etymology for the equivalent french word pamplemousse and it says: "from the dutch word pompelmoes, which means big lemon." Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
madizi Posted October 10, 2004 at 02:57 PM Report Share Posted October 10, 2004 at 02:57 PM The Oxford Dictionary lists only 230 words (most of which are highly obscure). List here. On the list is also word "daimio" which comes from Japanese. And "Tanka" is Tibetan word etc. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ala Posted October 20, 2004 at 04:45 PM Report Share Posted October 20, 2004 at 04:45 PM I suspect that typhoon came from Shanghai, but I can't prove it. Probably not, although Shanghai sure gets a lot of typhoons! Typhoon in Shanghainese is "Deifon" [dE fo~] (with English d, not pinyin d). Mandarin is Taifeng or Taifong (Taiwan) Cantonese is Toifung. Minnan Taiwanese is Hongtai. Most Mandarin -ai and Cantonese -oi diphthongs are pronounced like the monophthong "ei" [E] in Shanghainese. Older generations had huge problems pronouncing the Mandarin ai, as there is no "ai" diphthong in Shanghainese (nor any other non-medial diphthong). So speakers in Shanghai would often approximate "ai" as "a" and "i" ("阿以"). They also had huge problems pronouncing the Mandarin "ao" ("阿奥"), "uo", "ou" etc. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
xianhua Posted August 23, 2009 at 08:35 PM Report Share Posted August 23, 2009 at 08:35 PM An old post I know, but there's an interesting list of Chinese Pidgin English terms on Wikipedia, including 'where-to' and 'no-go'. The more I think of these terms, the more they do sound out of place. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chinese_Pidgin_English You'll note that many of these arose from interaction between the British and Chinese, hence usage in British English. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Join the conversation
You can post now and select your username and password later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.
Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible.