[GODCHA] Posted November 2, 2004 at 05:40 AM Report Share Posted November 2, 2004 at 05:40 AM how to translate 所到这里? and 前所未有? my teacher told me not to translate 所..coz it has no meaning???? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
roddy Posted November 2, 2004 at 07:57 AM Report Share Posted November 2, 2004 at 07:57 AM 前所未有 is a fixed expression meaning unprecedented, and I don't think breaking it down into parts would help much (at least, it didn't when I tried to do it) 所到这里 I don't know. My instinct is that its either another fixed expression - maybe meaning 'up to this point'? Or that its a fragment and you need something like 所到这里的人 to make it 'Everyone who comes here' or 'All the people who get here', which would be a more 'common' use of 所. I've got that feeling I usually get when people with much better Chinese than me are about to tell me where I"m wrong though . . . Roddy Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Quest Posted November 2, 2004 at 04:02 PM Report Share Posted November 2, 2004 at 04:02 PM 所 is a helping word that is hard to explain... anyone got a grammar book? 前所未有 can be broken down into: Before, of which, there never was. 所到这里的人: of those people, who came here similar to "of" in some of its functions, but different usage. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alchemist Posted November 2, 2004 at 05:51 PM Report Share Posted November 2, 2004 at 05:51 PM 所 is a helping word that is hard to explain... anyone got a grammar book? Here is the explanation given by my grammar book: "所 is a particle of infrequent use; it is mainly found in the written language between subject and verb as a nominalization marker to show that the implicit nominal element is the object of the verb of the nominalized clause. Even though it can be used alone, 所 is more frequently found in sentences ending with the particle 的." Some examples: 我们所知不多。 这正是问题所在。 我们跟他们一起所讨论的问题十分重要。 她所用的一定不是新方法。 This is the explanation from another book (simpler than the previous explanation): "The particle 所 is used between the subject and the verb, with the only purpose of giving the sentence some classic feeling. It's only used in the literary language (especially in relative clauses with the 的 particle) and in set phrases." Some more examples: 巩俐是意大利观众所喜欢的演员。 据我所知，此事很难理解。 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nnt Posted November 2, 2004 at 06:12 PM Report Share Posted November 2, 2004 at 06:12 PM 所到这里的人 The problem is that the expression is just "所到这里" alone . It's a remnant of classical Chinese, and sometimes before a verb is just a truly meaningless particle . ("无义" says the 辞源) 所到这里 = 到这里 [GODCHA]'s teacher is right ! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Quest Posted November 2, 2004 at 07:20 PM Report Share Posted November 2, 2004 at 07:20 PM It's a remnant of classical Chinese, and sometimes before a verb is just a truly meaningless particle. sometimes meaningless words are part of the grammar of the language, so you can't always throw them out. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HashiriKata Posted November 3, 2004 at 10:53 AM Report Share Posted November 3, 2004 at 10:53 AM Let's me try sitting on the fence : There are "fossilized items" in all languages, items which are no longer active in the grammar. I guess this is what nnt meant by "meaningless particle" ( It's also worth mentioning that sometimes people use the word "meaningless" to mean that (it) doesn't have lexical meanings, only syntactic functions). Therefore, (by looking at the examples given) I have a very distinct feeling that we're talking about different, more than one 所 and not just one and the same. Just wish I could be of more help! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
skylee Posted November 3, 2004 at 11:56 AM Report Share Posted November 3, 2004 at 11:56 AM "所到這裏" does not make sense to me. Could [GODCHA] tell us what are before and after these four words so that we could have a clearer picture? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
[GODCHA] Posted November 3, 2004 at 08:39 PM Author Report Share Posted November 3, 2004 at 08:39 PM OMG...I'm really really sorry....i missspelled.. it wasn't 所到这里...it is 听到这里.. i'm reallly sorry guyz...anyway..then wat is 听到这里 mean? and yeah..i was really curious about 所 anyway.. thank you for da all da explanation about 所 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
skylee Posted November 3, 2004 at 11:35 PM Report Share Posted November 3, 2004 at 11:35 PM 聽到這裏 - listen (to something) up to this point, having heard / listened to this And learn this -> 差之毫釐，謬之(以)千里 (a minimal error can lead you a thousand miles astray) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nnt Posted November 4, 2004 at 06:12 AM Report Share Posted November 4, 2004 at 06:12 AM Seen on the Net : 苏萧萧不耐烦的道：“不要太担心，秋仙那丫头我知道，她的身手虽然不敌，应该也没有多大的危险，既然能全身而退，可能有什么事情耽搁了！”他所到这里，可心中就有点嘀咕了， From http://www.cuiweiju.com/htmpage/54/5410/95.htm Perhaps [GODCHA]'s novel ? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HashiriKata Posted November 4, 2004 at 12:09 PM Report Share Posted November 4, 2004 at 12:09 PM OMG...I'm really really sorry....i missspelled.. it wasn't 所到这里...it is 听到这里.. We all do sometimes ! (In spite of the mistake, the fact remains that 所到这里 does exist) Regarding the question about 所 in the context where it doesn't seem to do anything, can someone with a better level of Chinese (than mine) please try out with real examples and tell us what difference it would make by deleting 所 in the examples? Even just a tiny minor difference, it'd still be very useful to know. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
skylee Posted November 4, 2004 at 01:02 PM Report Share Posted November 4, 2004 at 01:02 PM the fact remains that 所到这里 does exist Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nnt Posted November 4, 2004 at 01:33 PM Report Share Posted November 4, 2004 at 01:33 PM the fact remains that 所到这里 does exist HashiriKata: I don't think so . I quoted the previous webpage just to indicate that [GODCHA] was not alone to make the mistake ! The context should have told that 听 was the actual spelling, and that Skylee was right ... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HashiriKata Posted November 4, 2004 at 01:57 PM Report Share Posted November 4, 2004 at 01:57 PM Didn't I just say above: We all do (make mistakes) sometimes ! ??? This seems to be one of my days, because I did find many passages with the phrase in it (but not yet fully checked out the meaning): 所到这里，小鱼儿恍然大悟，秦剑与南宫柳故意不来，慕容姐妹故意如此打扮，正是要拘住花无缺不能真的出手，她们才好拿三件事来难住花无缺，只要花无缺一上当，这一仗便算输了！ ... 可能有什么事情耽搁了！”他所到这里，可心中就有点嘀咕了， 靳秋仙应该知道他们太平教的信息传递方式 ... 所到这里我要介绍一下Windows目录下system32driversetchosts文件。 ... 所到这里 感觉太牵强但我想说的 嗜血不一定是错的 同性恋也不是错的对错都是人家或是自己能接受的这就像是 ... ... 我还留有3点，等看以后治疗的效果如何，或许还有什么前致点什么的， 好了服侍阶段所到这里，对了，我现在的点数是 ... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Koneko Posted November 4, 2004 at 02:07 PM Report Share Posted November 4, 2004 at 02:07 PM 所到这里 sounds strange to me. But I have heard of 所到之处 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Koneko Posted November 4, 2004 at 02:07 PM Report Share Posted November 4, 2004 at 02:07 PM 所到这里 sounds strange to me. But I have heard of 所到之处 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
skylee Posted November 4, 2004 at 02:30 PM Report Share Posted November 4, 2004 at 02:30 PM 子猫ちゃん, 所到之處 is OK. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
[GODCHA] Posted November 7, 2004 at 04:12 AM Author Report Share Posted November 7, 2004 at 04:12 AM actually i found da sentence which include da 所 character. "经商"办人变成了一般人所追求的事业. and other one is. 这些都是中华人民共和过建国以来至八十年代所没有的. and still don't know how to translate these sentence.. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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