Wubi Xing question

[neurosport]

http://www.yellowbridge.com/chinese/character-stroke-order.php?searchChinese=1&zi=博

and the wubi xing code for this is FGEF

now "E" is a left falling stroke. just where in this character is a left falling stroke ?

thanks in advance !

[Altair]

Thanks to imron I am a recent convert to wubizixing.

Think of 博 as 十 + 一 + 用 + 丶 + 寸. 用 is used as a variant even though the left and middle strokes are different in 博. I think the handwritten version of this character is also more like 用 in the middle and less like 田. Nciku shows this as the traditional variant.

[neurosport]

用 ...

heh. a bit of a stretch, but i will take that explanation. thanks !

is that kind of liberal interpretation common in wubizixing ?

[imron]

Yes it is, or at least it's not that uncommon. My personal pet peeve is 亻 for the first shape in things like 追.

Wubi 98 attempted to address some of these problems and make them more consistent, however by that time the 86 version was so entrenched that it didn't really take off and so for the 18030 version the creators based it off the older 86 keyboard.

@Altair great to hear it!

[abytong]

actually 博 is 十+一+月+丨+丶+寸, (and 甫 is GEHY 一+月+丨+丶) it's not 用 but a 月 that starts with a vertical stroke, in handwriting 月 is usually written in that way, in the 五笔字根表 this 字根 is right next to 月.

[neurosport]

"so for the 18030 version the creators based it off the older 86 keyboard."

that's what i was also wondering about. i am using Mac OSX 10.6 and i was wondering which wubi it is giving me. i assume it is the 18030 ?

the wiki image:

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/6/60/5strokes.jpg

seems to mention ( in the upper left hand corner ) both 98 and 18030 which confuses me ...

and what about this one:

http://www.yale.edu/chinesemac/wubi/img/wbxbigkeys.gif

which one is that ?

and how about the one abytong posted :

http://www.wubizigen.net/images/wubizigenbao_2.jpg

[Altair]

actually 博 is 十+一+月+丨+丶+寸, (and 甫 is GEHY 一+月+丨+丶) it's not 用 but a 月 that starts with a vertical stroke, in handwriting 月 is usually written in that way

Thanks for the correction. I spoke up too quickly. By the way, your link kept on timing out, so I could not view it; however I was able to verify your combination by simply typing 甫 as geh(y).

Would there be any interest in listing and explaining the some of the top ten or twenty root combinations that are typically surprising or confusing? If so, I would vote for　some of the following:

追 (WNNP) or 段　(WDMC) （Initial "w" is unexpected.)

余 (WTU)(T is for 禾,　and yet the bottom element looks like it should be written GS or FI.)

且　(EGD)

连 (LPK) (The vertical in 车 is considered as the final stroke, rather than the last stroke of 辶.)

力　(LTN) and 艻 (ALB)(strokes seem to be counted in the wrong order. Shouldn't these be LNT and ALR according to the rules?)

盥 (QGIL) vs. 學 (WFQB) (Initial strokes look similar, but are treated differently.)

角 (QEJ) (The bottom element is printed differently from 用, even though it seems to be written the same.）

乘 (TUXV) (The 禾 element is surprisingly broken up by other elements.)

印 (QGBH) (The initial Q is surprising and seems to be a variant of 犭）

止　(HHHG)　(Since this character lies on the H key, it would seem that is should be written as HHGG, which names the key and then spells out the strokes.)

[vampire]

how is the bottom part of 角 printed differently from 用?

word order for 止 is long vertical + short vertical + short horizontal + long horizontal isnt it?

禾 in 余 is the same as 月 in 博, in handwriting the first stroke usually becomes a horizontal stroke

for 余且艻连乘 the last key is an extra 识别码 (乘tuxv=禾+丬+匕+识别码)

Q in 印 is the upper-left part of 氏, W in 追/段 is 亻, unexpected for me too when i was learning wubi, also 曹=一+冂+"upper part of 共"+日,垂=丿+一+艹+土, there should be some more but i cant remeber right now, the way of breaking down these charactars are indeed weird

you may go to this site for looking up how to break down charactars

[imron]

@neurosport, 18030 is basically just the 86 version with extra roots added to support the input of traditional characters. I'm guessing the 98-18030 is basically the same thing except it's the 98 key map with added support for traditional characters.

Regarding the pictures, the first one is 98 map (with support for traditional) and the second and third are both for the 86 version. If you're going to learn one, make sure to learn the 86 version. It's the most common.

For OSX, I don't use the default Wubi IME because I find it so awful. Instead I use QIM (costs money but is worth every cent) with the Wubi 外挂. FIT also has good Wubi support and is free. I believe both support 18030 (which is just 86 + traditional roots).

[Altair]

Hi Vampire, thanks for your replies.

how is the bottom part of 角 printed differently from 用?

It seems that in some fonts, the vertical stroke in 角 does not pierce through the bottom horizontal stroke. This is true for me in the very sentence you wrote. If I have done it right, this image should show what I am talking about.

word order for 止 is long vertical + short vertical + short horizontal + long horizontal isnt it?

The stroke order I know is long vertical + short horizontal + short vertical + long horizontal. The is what

nciku shows. Is this different from the current standard or from the usual 行书 order?

禾 in 余 is the same as 月 in 博, in handwriting the first stroke usually becomes a horizontal stroke

I am not sure I understand your reasoning. Could you elaborate?

for 余且艻连乘 the last key is an extra 识别码 (乘tuxv=禾+丬+匕+识别码)

Yes, but in the case of 连 (LPK) and similar characters, the last stroke is the bottom of 辶, and so the 识别码 should be "I" and the full code for 连 should be LPI. For some reason, it seems that Wubizixing almost (?) always uses the last stroke of the element on the right instead of the stroke that is actually written last. 艻 is also puzzling for me, because I write 丿 as the last stoke, not 乛. According to the stroke order I use, the code for 艻 should therefore be ALR, instead of the actual ALB.

you may go to this site for looking up how to break down charactars

Thanks for your link. It lead me to this site which would have been a simple and fantastic site for me to learn on. I would recommend this to anyone who has read the basic rules.

[vampire]

It seems that in some fonts, the vertical stroke in 角 does not pierce through the bottom horizontal stroke

I think in simplified characters the last vertical stroke in 角 is always a pierce-through one while in traditional and japanese characters it does not pierce through, I might be wrong though.

I myself write 止 in the order of 竖竖横横 not 竖横竖横, and judging by the wubi code of 止 being HHHG the wubi creator also followed this stroke order, but anyway for characters like 止上etc stroke order really varies among different people, hard to say which is right or wrong.

for 识别码 there are some special rules

1). 带“辶、廴、囗”等偏旁的全包围或半包围结构的汉字，它们的末笔必须取被包围结构的最后一笔，而不是这些偏旁的末笔。如：连（LPK）、圆（LKMI）

too many characters are with these three radicals

2). “九、匕、刀、力”四个汉字，在参与识别时，其末笔统一规定为“乙”（折）；“我”“戋”“成”等字的末笔一律规定为“丿”(撇)。

still the stroke order thing, different people write them in different stroke order

Edited January 10, 2011 at 11:16 AM by vampire