New Members Culcet Posted February 6, 2011 at 08:39 PM New Members Report Share Posted February 6, 2011 at 08:39 PM Hey guys, I was hoping to get some feedback and advice on my situation. About myself: I'm currently a senior in college with some Chinese language background (I took it for the first three years of college, and have spent two consecutive summers in Beijing). However, as many of you probably know, my language ability has tended to fade somewhat since I've returned to the states (and have taken a break to focus on the job search). I'd like to spend either a semester or a year studying Chinese. The thing is that I missed Tsinghua's IUP deadline and beyond that, I'm not really sure what category I belong to (my Chinese has regressed some). Regarding my long term goals, I may or may not pursue a career in Asia, but I'm certainly interested in attempting to master the language this fall. Because of various things that happened in college, since my freshman summer I never really got the chance to study abroad without worrying about grades and such. I have the following questions: 1) What other alternatives do I have at this point in time? What schools would you recommend if I wanted to learn business Chinese? 2) Realistically, how good can one's Chinese become in six months? A year? 3) What is the American student presence at the major Chinese research universities (Beida, Tsinghua, Fudan, etc.?) Thanks so much, Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
valikor Posted February 7, 2011 at 08:21 AM Report Share Posted February 7, 2011 at 08:21 AM I can only attempt address the 2nd part of your question. It's probably possible for you to learn Chinese in one intensive year, if you have extreme motivation and talent. My own feeling is that one or the other probably won't be enough. By motivation, I'd guess that you'd need to spend 8-10 hours a day (including class time) studying or practicing, every day, for a whole year, in order to have Chinese that is really functional for business. But talent is also a consideration. I have a friend in Beijing who speaks Chinese pretty fluently. He says that when he learns new characters, he can write them a few times, and then remember them. This is absolutely unfathomable to me. If I put in such a small amount of effort, I wouldn't be able to remember even how to read/recognize a new character, let alone how to *write* it. I also know some people who have been fairly diligent over an extended period of time, but seem to be hopelessly lost when it comes to remembering and using tones. It's not that they have bad teachers, or that they aren't trying hard. They just seem unable to do it. This hampers their progress. If you are very bright, with a very good memory and a good ear, you would probably be able to learn functional Chinese in one year--if you studied constantly. Just my opinion. I think this type of question has been asked many times before, so you could do a search. Good luck, David Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gato Posted February 7, 2011 at 08:24 AM Report Share Posted February 7, 2011 at 08:24 AM Valikor, you missed this part in OP's message: "I took it for the first three years of college, and have spent two consecutive summers in Beijing". Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vkim67 Posted February 7, 2011 at 09:29 AM Report Share Posted February 7, 2011 at 09:29 AM I can only attempt @question 1. 1) You can also self-study for the first half of the year using the advice & suggestions abundant in this site... OR take classes at schools with more flexible dates that offer small group classes as well (such as Bincai in Harbin but I'm sure there are other schools around the country). I don't know if they specifically offer Business Chinese but a one-on-one tutorial is probably an option. That would best complement your own independent studies so you can reduce tuition cost and just use the time to go over nuances and things you have trouble learning on your own. Then for the 2nd semester if you're looking for something structured and rigorous like the Tsinghua IUP program is known for you can apply for the 2nd semester there or at CET or Middlebury programs (Harbin, Kunming, Hangzhou, Beijing, locations). I've also heard of (but have limited knowledge of) ACC (also in Beijing) or Taiwan's language program (if u learn traditional) as having intensive language programs. You can probably search more about those programs on this forum. I can only speak about CET Harbin since I am studying here but I am taking the business elective which has lots of formal terms. Also the one-on-one tutorial you can select your own topic and focus on a more specific aspect of business if you want. It will include lots of reading and writing. The second semester that you participate in the program, the required one-on-two tutorial becomes another one-on-one so you can request to also tailor this class to a topic of your choice as I am doing this spring semester but it will focus more on oral spoken Chinese. Best of luck! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
orangutan Posted February 7, 2011 at 10:27 AM Report Share Posted February 7, 2011 at 10:27 AM I think it's fair to say that nearly everyone underestimates how long it takes to get really fluent in Chinese and don't really realise how much further they have left to go. It's difficult to give a very concrete answer to your question as we don't really know your level now. If you want to understand the Chinese TV news and TV series without difficulty, read a newspaper and novels freely, be able to converse fluently on almost any normal topic of conversation with a good level of accuracy and write to the same standard, it takes a lot of dedication however talented you are. I don't think I've ever met anyone who can really claim to have achieved this (and passed the advanced HSK to prove it) without having studied for about four years more or less full-time. I'm not saying there aren't people out there who have managed it in less, but they are certainly very few and they must be very talented and have worked at it very hard without the distractions of having to work at the same time. On the other hand, if you are happy not achieving fluency in all these different areas (eg missing out such a high level of written fluency, or not paying much attention to real 口语） then you might be able to achieve your goals in less time, but some people might then say you would not really be fluent. My impressin is that there are even quite a few people out there with degrees in Chinese who can't really claim to be fluent in all these areas. But these are only my views - would love there to be a barrage of replies from people who did all this in 3 years or less! 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
valikor Posted February 7, 2011 at 01:55 PM Report Share Posted February 7, 2011 at 01:55 PM @Gato Actually I didn't miss that, I just am not sure how much it matters. I personally took 3 semesters of Chinese in college and learned absolutely nothing. I have met others who studied more than I did, and have basically a beginner's level. I also know people who have come to Beijing in the summer and partied a lot at BCLU, and didn't learn much. So, perhaps the OP has already learned a few thousand characters and is at a decent conversational level already. But, he hasn't told us that. He said he's unsure what category he's in, and that his skills have faded with time. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gato Posted February 7, 2011 at 02:31 PM Report Share Posted February 7, 2011 at 02:31 PM Just saying that your hypothetical "if you studied constantly" probably wouldn't apply in this case. ;) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jmhcali Posted February 11, 2011 at 09:56 AM Report Share Posted February 11, 2011 at 09:56 AM The Chinese you learned in college will be adequate for the classroom, but not for walking around talking to Beijingren. I don't know if my tones are all wrong or what, but when I say things to the teacher or my classmates they understand, but other Chinese have to hear it a few times to understand me. Any program you apply to should give you a placement exam to find out which level of classes you should be in. Also, make sure you can switch classes if it is too easy or too hard. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BeijingDaniel2011 Posted February 12, 2011 at 09:20 AM Report Share Posted February 12, 2011 at 09:20 AM First things first, I work as a student advisor for a mandarin school in Beijing (Live the language). I guess this means that I have a bit of experience answering these kinds of questions but am also a little biased about schools With 3 years of studying as well as the 2 summers in Beijing under your belt you would presumably have a good grasp of the language already. I find that most people struggle with the foundations of the language but once they reach an intermediate kind of level it gets easier. By this point most people have kind of got the hang of tones, pronunciation and writing characters so its easier to improve faster. @valikor: I also have a friend who can now remember a character after writing it 3-4 times. If you were to study in China for a year I believe your Chinese would improve incredibly and you would be able to start tackling business Chinese. This is just what I've encountered throughout my studies and my work and others may have different testimonies. Like other people have already said there are a lot of factors that would influence how quickly you improve. I believe that as long as you are motivated, immerse yourself in the language, find a school with a teaching method that suits you then you could improve a lot. There are a lot of international students at all those major universities. I often get mixed reviews about the universities. Many people complain that they don't get enough attention from the teachers because class sizes tend to be quite big. On the other hand many people enjoy it because they have a good social life there. I think many people who attend the universities do it in conjunction with their uni course in the states because they can get credit for their courses. I think if you really want to improve your language in a short amount of time then you should try a language school. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Katerina Mal Posted February 16, 2011 at 07:42 AM Report Share Posted February 16, 2011 at 07:42 AM hello, Your place is "Live The Language School(LTL)"! You may start Your classes anytime You want. I used to study there and now I am doing my internship in Beijing with the great help of this School. All teachers are Degree-holders in Teaching Mandarin as a Foreign Language, hight experienced, hard working and great at what they do. Teachers build always interesting and easy to understand classes. As for school itself...atmosphere is great!: cozy and comfortable classrooms with all necessary facilities, and during the breaks you can enjoy your cup of coffee/tea on the sunny terrace, enjoy quick chat with the school stuff or just check your email (free WiFi).. You may take one-on-one intensive chinese or in groups(max 6 people). Teachers will built the whole course around You and do their best to Your progress. School also helps to find accomodations and if You want Your progress as fast as possible You may chose to live with Chinese Family:) And also If you face any difficulties in Beijing - Don't hesitate to ask for a help from the LTL stuff. good luck! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tooironic Posted February 16, 2011 at 10:19 AM Report Share Posted February 16, 2011 at 10:19 AM If you're talking about being functional in the language, then a year or two is certainly doable. (What I mean by functional is being able to do general, everyday tasks in Mandarin - order food, ask directions, introduce yourself. Not discuss international politics.) If you want to be highly fluent - as in, comfortably communicative in the language, both written and spoken - take your expected time period and multiple it by five. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jbradfor Posted February 16, 2011 at 02:33 PM Report Share Posted February 16, 2011 at 02:33 PM I used to study there Only if by "study" you mean "work". My opinion of LTL just went down when you have employees shilling, pretending to be students. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
roddy Posted February 17, 2011 at 01:52 AM Report Share Posted February 17, 2011 at 01:52 AM It appears Katerina does have a job posting ads for a visa service, as I've just deleted two of them. No more thanks, Katerina. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zhouhaochen Posted February 17, 2011 at 02:21 AM Report Share Posted February 17, 2011 at 02:21 AM Katerina does not or ever has worked for Live the Language. She used to be a student (a very good one) from September 2010 until January 2011 with us, after having studied Mandarin at BLCU before. Its true the comment sounds a bit like an advertisement from us, however, that doesnt make it one. As Roddy rightly pointed out, she currently works for a visa agency (which has nothing to do with teaching Chinese). She also was a very enthusiastic and dedicated student, who cared a lot about studying Chinese and put a lot of effort into it, who speaks fluently today. The kind of people it is fun to have studying at your school. Just maybe not so familiar with the "neticette" (I dont even know how to spell that, any ideas?) here, which is not so good, but no need to get nasty though. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
imron Posted February 17, 2011 at 02:53 AM Report Share Posted February 17, 2011 at 02:53 AM "neticette" (I dont even know how to spell that, any ideas?) netiquette - a portmanteau of Internet etiquette. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jbradfor Posted February 17, 2011 at 03:15 AM Report Share Posted February 17, 2011 at 03:15 AM She used to be a student Oh, OK. Her grammar does not sound like a native English speaker to me. In fact, the mistakes made are typical of native Chinese speakers. The "overly enthusiastic" writing is typical of Chinese speakers as well. So I just assumed; apologies if I were wrong. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
anonymoose Posted February 17, 2011 at 03:23 AM Report Share Posted February 17, 2011 at 03:23 AM She may have been a student, but considering her first and currently only post on this site is praise for LTL, my guess is that she didn't come here spontaneously and of her own accord. I reckon she was directed to this thread by someone with interests in LTL. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
imron Posted February 17, 2011 at 03:31 AM Report Share Posted February 17, 2011 at 03:31 AM but considering her first and currently only post on this site is praise for LTL You missed the two deleted by Roddy promoting the visa company she works for. My tip for good forum etiquette (not just here, but elsewhere on the Internet too) - don't advertise/promote a company/business/product in your first post (or in fact your first few dozen posts). The best way to engage with a community is to be a part of that community. If you only interact with a community in order to try and promote your business/product there, you'll probably find that the community won't treat you in a very friendly manner. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
roddy Posted February 17, 2011 at 04:48 AM Report Share Posted February 17, 2011 at 04:48 AM but considering her first and currently only post on this site is praise for LTL, my guess is that she didn't come here spontaneously and of her own accord Which we wouldn't actually object to (well I wouldn't, you lot can do what you want ). We've had schools prompt people to come along before, and while I think it's not ideal - there's a very real chance of it looking like a shill post, and you have to assume they're only asking the happy customers - it's still valid info. Perhaps in need of discounting, but still valid. We really should have a more concrete set of guidelines for companies to use, but I suspect I'd spend the rest of my life plugging loopholes in it. Assuming anyone read it. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Katerina Mal Posted February 17, 2011 at 06:12 AM Report Share Posted February 17, 2011 at 06:12 AM You are absolutely right, I am not a native english speaker. I am half german, half russian. More questions? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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