Looking for articles about the third tone

[Olle Linge]

I'm currently writing a paper about various ways/models to explain/teach the pronunciation of the third tone in Mandarin, so I would like to ask for help finding relevant articles. I'm interested in all aspects of the third tone, but primarily the tone changes occurring in front of a first, second or fourth tone (i.e. not how to handle many consecutive third tones). My aim is to explain a few models and relate these to how the third tone is described in various beginner-level textbooks. Thus, I'm interested in all kinds of theories/explanations/models, whether they can be found in textbooks or not. The models don't have to be good or accurate to be of interest! In this phase, I'm looking for any relevant articles, theses or books, although academic ones would be best. I can read English, Chinese, French and Swedish, so articles in other languages would have to be very good indeed to be of interest!

This post over at Sinosplice is a good example of what I'm after, although more traditional models are of equal interest.

Thank you!

[Hugh]

I've got a copy of 'Chinese for Beginners' from 北京语言文化大学. I can scan the section on tones if you like.

Also, at risk of seeming spammy, I covered tones on my site: http://eastasiastudent.net/1104/china/mandarin/cmn-speaking/tone-change-rules/ It might be of interest.

[kongli]

Found this 美国学生习得第三声的声调情境变异研究,The Study of Situational Context Effect on Acquisition of Third Tone of Mandarin by American Students

by 严彦

Can't seem to download the article but perhaps you can find it elsewhere. Sorry!

[Olle Linge]

For those who are interested in the final result, I've written an article about the thesis here: http://www.hackingchinese.com/?p=768

Not only does it contain a discussion about how to teach the third tone, but it also includes a fairly long list of references in case anyone else is interested in reading more.

[anonymoose]

I just read your article and you make some good and interesting points.

One thing you didn't mention in your article (although maybe it's in your thesis, which I didn't read) is the distinction between being aware of tones in theory and being able to enunciate them correctly in practice.

Of course if the third tone is taught in a confusing fashion, it may lead to misunderstanding on the part of the student, which will inevitably result in bad pronunciation. However, in my experience, beyond the beginner level, most people are aware of how tones should be pronounced, including the third tone. The difficulty arises in actually enunciating tones correctly, particularly in fast and connected speech. It seems to me that some people are just naturally good at handling tones, whereas others aren't, and in the latter case, tones tend to be all over the place, be it the third tone or any of the others. I haven't noticed the third tone being more problematic than the others, except for the tone sandhi issue, which is of course outside the scope of your article.

Having said that though, these are just my thoughts without having actually paid particular attention to the issue. But I fully agree with you that the third tone is essentially a low falling or flat tone in connected speech and should be taught as such.

[Olle Linge]

You bring up a valid and interesting point. I haven't had time to look for research in that direction, but there should be studies conducted on the relationship between theoretical understanding and actual accurate pronunciation regarding tones. If there isn't, there should be studies done in nearby areas (pronunciation), which might shed some light on the issue. I find this very interesting and I actually did a minor study focusing on this last year. A minor study means it was a pilot test involving around ten students, so I can't really say anything about the results.

Regarding awareness of how the third tone is supposed to be pronounced, I'm not sure I agree with you. In my experience, many people are actually unable to explain how the third tone is supposed to be pronounced in different situations. Naturally, the awareness is higher in advanced students, but I still think that the problems with the third tone comes from lack of theoretical understanding to a significant extent, albeit I of course agree with you that it isn't the whole truth and might not even be the major determining factor. Still, I'd like to see research support either statement. I'll see what I can find, let me know if you know of something or if you're able to find something yourself!

[Scoobyqueen]

I would like to attach the tone diagram my teacher gave me on the third tone. How do I attach it? I think she is showing the tone in isolation and then in combination.

[XiaoXi]

You neglected to mention that when there are two third tones in a row the first changes to second frequently even when there is a 轻生 word in between. Something many people haven't realised (even teachers). It happens particularly with certain emphasis on a word. For example this sentence with emphasis on 有 - 她有个好家庭. Despite the 个 in between the two third tones, the 有 will still change into a second tone.

[anonymoose]

Despite the 个 in between the two third tones, the 有 will still change into a second tone.

Do you have any references that describe this phenomenon?

[Olle Linge]

You neglected to mention that when there are two third tones in a row the first changes to second frequently even when there is a 轻生 word in between.

I wouldn't say "neglected" since this is a focus on how to teach the third tone to beginners. I doubt anyone thinks it's a good idea to include what you suggest in tone instructions for complete beginners. I would also like to know more about the phenomenon you describe, so a +1 on the reference demand. I personally would pronounce the 有 as a low tone in your sentence, but I'm not a native speaker. If I'm wrong, I'd like to see how and why.

[XiaoXi]

I don't have any references, no. More obvious examples perhaps would be 死不了, 买不起 etc.

I suggest you ask a native to say all these examples and listen carefully.

[anonymoose]

If any native speakers would be willing to post a recording of themselves saying these phrases, that would be most appreciated.

[XiaoXi]

My Pleco dictionary has 死不了 pronounced in full by a native speaker. Here's another example where perhaps you can hear it for yourself. Say these two sentences or if you have a native speaker handy have them say it and concentrate how the 买 sounds in each sentence. Please ignore the fact they are incomplete sentences, grammar and such:

她买个好房子

她买好房子

The 买 obviously should change to 2nd tone in the second sentence but for me the 买 is pronounced the same in both sentences.