The meaning of "不一樣 ..."

[綠色的外星人]

While reading through example sentences in "Modern Mandarin Chinese Grammar" (Ross, Ma), I discovered a few translations that seem to contradict one another (at least to my untrained eyes):

1. 1. 這個旅館的房間不跟那個旅館的房間一樣乾淨。 or
      
   2. 這個旅館的房間跟那個旅館的房間不一樣乾淨。

Both translated as: "The rooms in this hotel are not as clean as the rooms in that hotel."

[*]

1. 我兒子不跟我女兒一樣高。 or
   
2. 我兒子跟我女兒不一樣高。

Both translated as: "My son and my daughter are not equally tall."

These sentences seem to follow the pattern:

1. NP1 不跟 NP2 一樣 AV。 or
   
2. NP1 跟 NP2 不一樣 AV。
   

However, despite the similar structures:

1. the translations of sentences 1.a and 1.b specify inequality (<) in a specific direction:
   NP1 is not as AV as NP2.
   
2. the translations of sentences 2.a and 2.b specify inequality (≠) without specifying a direction:
   NP1 and NP2 are not equally AV.
   

Can anyone explain what's going on here? I'm stumped...

Why does 不一樣高 translate to "not equally tall", but 不一樣乾淨 translate to "not as clean as"?

Furthermore, why wouldn't the following translations be equally valid:

1. The rooms in this hotel and the rooms in that hotel are not equally clean.
   
2. My son is not as tall as my daughter.
   

Thanks!

[Kenny同志]

•

o 這個旅館的房間不跟那個旅館的房間一樣乾淨。 or

o 這個旅館的房間跟那個旅館的房間不一樣乾淨。

•

o 我兒子不跟我女兒一樣高。 or

o 我兒子跟我女兒不一樣高。

Obviously, these are invented sentences; native speakers wouldn’t say things this way. Though of course, you could hear or read such wording occasionally, it’s not considered good Chinese.

If I were to express the same thing, I would say

这个(家 is preferred)旅馆的房间没有那家的干净。

我儿子跟我女儿高矮不一样。

Or more specifically, 我儿子比我女儿高/我儿子没我女儿高.

It’s inconceivable that these appalling example sentences are from a textbook!

[歐博思]

Kenny sums it up perfect.

Remember 跟 used in comparisons only says things are equal or not equal, it doesn't consider their relative degrees like 没有，比，不比，etc, so the translation has to reflect this. Like Kenny said though that is not a preferred way of speaking

[綠色的外星人]

Kenny, 欧博思,

Many thanks for taking the time to reply to my post.

I must admit I'm a little disappointed to find that these sentence examples are not well-regarded by native speakers, especially when the the textbook claims to be "an ideal reference grammar", and appears to come from an authoritative source (Ross & Ma).

However, thanks for helping me to become aware of this fact! I hope I can find more reliable sources...

So would you agree that, despite the unnaturalness of the Chinese sentences, the most accurate translations into English would be:

• 這個旅館的房間不跟那個旅館的房間　一樣乾淨。 or
  這個旅館的房間　跟那個旅館的房間不一樣乾淨。
  "The rooms in this hotel and the rooms in that hotel are not equally clean."
  
• 我兒子不跟我女兒　一樣高。 or
  我兒子　跟我女兒不一樣高。
  "My son and my daughter are not equally tall."
  

If the example sentences in Ross and Ma are not in the style used by native speakers, can you recommend any other similar books? I'm looking for a grammar book in which I can find lots of comprehensible input, so:

• lots of example sentences, in common usage patterns
  
• clear translations of each sentence into English
  
• traditional, as well as simplified characters
  

Thanks again!

Jonathan

[Kenny同志]

You’re welcome, Green Alien.

I am sorry I don’t know of any good textbooks for studying Chinese. Maybe other members have something great to recommend to you.

Good luck

Kenny

[imron]

If you're after a good grammar book (and presumably you are), you can't go past Chinese: A Comprehensive Grammar.

[mary qiao]

這個旅館的房間不跟那個旅館的房間一樣乾淨。 or

這個旅館的房間跟那個旅館的房間不一樣乾淨。

the first one is right.the second one is not used in life.

我兒子不跟我女兒一樣高。 or

我兒子跟我女兒不一樣高。

the second one is popular,but the first one is wrong.

In fact,we don't use the wrong two completely.the familiar sentences of them is like：

这个旅馆的房间和那个旅馆的房间干净程度不一样。The rooms in this hotel and the rooms in that hotel are not equally clean .

我儿子不如我女儿高。"My son is not as tall as my daughter."（his daughter is taller）

so,the right expression is:

這個旅館的房間不跟那個旅館的房間一樣乾淨。

The rooms in this hotel are not as clean as the rooms in that hotel.

我兒子跟我女兒不一樣高。

My son and my daughter are tall.

Can you find the different?

不跟..一样——not as .. as

跟..不一样——not equally..

Simply,you can express derogatory sense or complimentary sense with 不跟..一样，and just express the difference with 跟..不一样.

though this rule is not used all cases,you can take it as a reference.