Living location help!

[mariavittoria]

Hey everyone! This is my first post here.

I will move to Beijing on 10th August with my boyfriend. He will teach at a university in Wudaokou and I'm going to take a long-term Chinese language course. I have my eyes on CLE in Guomao because they really seem to be the most serious ones and for a number of other reasons.

A little background: I lived in Beijing from Feb to July 2009, used to live in Chegongzhuang (Xicheng district) and go to uni on Xisanhuan Beilu. I am familiar with the city and know that even commuting within "downtown" can be stressful. I speak Chinese, my boyfriend doesn't but he's familiar with Chinese culture and the like (lived two years in HK in the past).

Now, I have trouble making a decision about the school because I know that Wudaokou is freaking distant from Guomao, and even finding a house in between could result in stressful commuting hours for both of us. I was thinking that maybe the Yonghegong/Andingmen area might be good (and also a nice neighborhood) or even Shaoyaqu/Taiyanggong seems to be kinda halfway in between.

On the other side, I could just find a school in Wudaokou and call it quits, but none of those I found seems to be as good as CLE.

What would you do? I would really appreciate any advice guys!

thanks a lot!

[imron]

Find a school and a place to live in Wudaokou.

It's not worth the commute.

[Lu]

I agree with Imron. Guomao to Wudaokou takes, what, an hour? Don't know when you/your boyfriend would travel, but during rush hour that will not be fun. With that commute, you might as well get a place to live for each of you and see each other on the weekends.

[mariavittoria]

Actually we were thinking of finding a place kinda in between, say Yonghegong/Andingmen or somewhere on the north 3rd ring road.

Would that still be crazy?

[Shelley]

Hi ya,

is your boyfriend doing what he wants where he wants, no compromises? If so then you should do what you want where you want. A house halfway between the two is fair and equatable. The commuting might be horrible but so would a compromise on your choice.Talk to your boyfriend see what he thinks of commuting. What ever decision you make, make it together. and be prepared for the consequences. This is all of course only my humble opinion. Choose for yourselves. Good luck Shelley

[amandagmu]

The commute is awful and it's really not getting any better because the subways imo are always crowded and tiring. Forget about ever sitting. An hour between those two points is if you don't have to walk for more than 5-10 minutes from the subway exit on either side. You could try and compromise living halfway between them... but I lived in the Lama temple area before and from there to Wudaokou is still at least 40-45 minutes (because there's always some walking at one end). I'm guessing that it might be slightly less to Guomao from there if you don't travel during rush hour. If it's during rush hour.... good luck with line 1. It's a nightmare.

Line 10 is very crowded but it is newer and nicer than dealing with Line 1. If I were you, I'd just try the commutes while you're looking at places in various spots.

You haven't said that much about what you're choosing CLE? Can you visit the program, sit in classes, or do a trial class or two, or just buy a few hours at first? I'm asking because you might find out you don't want to commute and/or that it really isn't all it seems to be at first glance.

Of course, if you're independently wealthy, there's always IUP Tsinghua and CET Beijing, but most of us don't have money bags sitting around waiting to be spent.

[mariavittoria]

@amandagmu

Thanks for your reply. I had looked into IUP but the deadline for applying was like in February plus as you already mentioned it's really expensive.

I was thinking of just entering China on an L visa, take some trial classes around and then make my mind about which school to choose. I'm too scared to enrol in CLE right now and then find out that it's going to make my life a nightmare, no thanks.

I read some positive reviews about CLE, and they were the only language school that claimed to be able to sponsor a student visa (don't know if F or X but whatever). Also, they sound very professional and I like that they help you get an internship etc.

Anyway, do you guys know if I can enter on a L visa and, once enrolled, convert it to F/X? I read several posts about this in the Visa section but still it's not clear. The Hutong School in the Gulou area told me:

"Unfortunately, because we are a private school, we are unable to provide the documents necessary for a Student (X-visa). We suggest that you apply for a Tourist (L-visa). This visa should be the easiest visa for you to obtain. Once you are here in Beijing, you should be able to convert or extend your visa at one of the local agencies."

Is this true? Should I trust them? This school seems reliable but you never know.

Ps: I plan on staying at least 6 months, so I do have to get an F/X visa at some point.

[jbradfor]

I agree with Shelley that compromise is important, but I'm not sure this situation really requires it.

I get the impression that the OP is really not that unhappy to be moving to China, given her(?) previous time in China. And it's not as if she really has her heart set on CLE, it just seems like she thinks it's the best school for her. So to force both of them to have this commute, just due to some vague notion of fairness, doesn't seem a good idea to me.

If the OP didn't want to go to China, or really wanted to go to a certain school, then I would agree that compromise is in order. But if it's just a matter of "this school seems better", I think both of you would be better off with a shorter commute and more time together.

[Shelley]

I agree with jbradfor. I had hoped that what you said was sort of in what I had said. maybe it didn't come across like that. More time together and less stress would be good. I hope my main point was that they should decide together came across. Well said jbradfor. Shelley

[trevelyan]

You can find schools all over, although if you really want to make progress you shouldn't be dependent on them. 地球村 is right next to the Wudaokou subway station and has the advantage of being inexpensive, and cram-oriented.

[skylee]

Why does it seems that everyone says an one-hour or 45-min's commute (one-way) is horrible / nightmare? I think it is not unreasonable. I think in many cities many people spend this amount of (or more) time to commute to work during rush hours everyday.

[imron]

Here's a funny look at Beijing's public transport situation. Be sure to check out the last image related to the subway

Even living in Andingmen or Yonghegong would be a pain, especially if you'll both be commuting during peak hour, not least because whether going to Wudaokou or Guomao, there still involves a change of lines and Beijing's subway has been poorly designed in this respect and you'll often find yourself walking 5 minutes just to make the swap.

Living somewhere close to 知春路 might be an option. It's only one stop from Wudaokou on line 13, and line 10 goes directly to 国贸. It's also close enough to the beginning of the line that you might even be able to get a seat sometimes, though probably not if it's peak hour.

Ideally though, I would still just try to find something in Wudaokou so you can both cut out the need to commute. There are plenty of private schools in the area and I'm sure you'd be able to find one that meets your needs.

[imron]

Why does it seems that everyone says an one-hour or 45-min's commute (one-way) is horrible / nightmare?

Because that's 2 hours in a day wasted (plus it's not just the time, it's also the fact that public transport in Beijing is severely overcrowded, so it's 45 mins to an hour of constant jostling, possibly without adequate air-conditioning in the summer). Such a commute wouldn't be a problem if it wasn't so crowded and you could do something like read a book or whatever, but you can forget about trying to do that in peak hour on the Beijing subway.

It was actually living in China that taught me how great it is to have a short commute, and after returning to Australia I made sure that I continued with that.

[Mulletious]

Commuting an hour one way really is a nightmare in Beijing. It's time consuming, uncomfortable, just plain bad. I used to go from Hadianhuangzhuang to Sanyuanqiao every day for a year during rush hour. This, though a quick and seemingly easy ride, was hell to me. There were days I was pushed out, pushed in, had all my body crushed by different directions,etc. People would somehow even shove their way into already full cars. I'm fine with the subway, but at that point it was just plain ridiculous. Do not recommend.

[amandagmu]

I agree. When I commute with my husband in Germany for an hour we both sit on a comfortable, smooth train while eating a croissant and reading a book. Have you ever been on a packed bus in China with little breathing room? Being on the Beijing subway in rush hour often feels like that. Switching lines is also crowded, and some of the switches (like at Xizhimen and Dongzhimen) take a lot of time following hoards of people through tunnels. The only thing one can do in Beijing traffic is listen to an iPod; not a bad option, but for me it doesn't help much when standing in a crowded group of people for so long.

[Friedrich]

I study Chinese at ltl (Guo Mao/Da Wang Lu area) which was all good, until I got my new girlfriend who is working in Wudaokou and we decided to move in together. We are currently researching the situation and I can share a few ideas:

1) I wouldnt suggest to move to Yonghegong/Andingmen. With that you would have to take the No.2 Line first and then change in Jianguomen to Line 1 which is pretty annyong.

2) The best connection between Wudaokou and the Central Business District is Line 10 (dont know if that was already built when you were here). I would suggest to live in the Liang Ma Qiao/Lufthansa area or on the stops further west on the 10 line (the further west you go, the better for your bf, but the longer for you ;) ), which would both give you and your boyfriend about a half an hour commute on the subway line without having to change. Deposit a bike at the end station and use that to get around there, leave it at the bike enclosure at the station over night/weekend.

The area has a lot of shops, is lively and actually very central (10 minute bike ride to Sanlitun, 15 minutes lido etc. Rent might be slightly cheaper though if you move a stop or two west from Lufthansa, as its not as popular though. No point going South, as the next one is Agricultural Exhibition Hall, where almost no accomodation is available close and if you go further south, it gets a bit unfair towards your bf.

Not sure what I will do yet, I really like my school, I love my girlfriend and not sure what I think about a subway ride every day yet.

Been researching the problem for a while, so if you have any further questions, send me a pm.

[mariavittoria]

Thanks everyone for all your kind advice.

When I lived in BJ in 2009 the subway at Xisanhuan Beilu was under construction, so I would ride my bike for 40 minutes to get to Uni. Used the bus during the colder months and then decided to get myself a bike because it was unbearable.

In the weekends I would spend most of my time east of Tiananmen for obvious reasons, so I would usually go there by subway, but not during peak hours in the morning. Despite that, I found myself squeezed among tons of people especially on lines 1 and 2 (1 being the worst one, I agree). So I know what all of you people are talking about and I'm glad you mentioned it because I was starting to think "maybe it's not that bad" after two years of not setting foot in BJ. I also remember that the biggest PITA was changing trains at Xizhimen, and it was also one of the main reasons why I wouldn't hang out much in Wudaokou!

So yes, I've decided to take my time to make a decision, I will most likely enter China with a tourist visa first, choose a school and try some subway options, and then have my L visa converted to F. That shouldn't be too much of a hassle, right? :unsure:

@Friedrich: your advice on the Liangmaqiao area is actually very smart, I considered that myself although I don't know the area much. If you want we can keep in touch for further developments, it seems that our situations are quite similar.

Finally, I just want to make clear that both me and my BF are really excited to be moving to China, but maybe I am a little bit more, since I did my grad and postgrad studies in Chinese studies and was DYING to be there again to improve my Chinese. He just made every effort to find a teaching position there so we could go together and I could take my language training. So technically, he's doing me a favour

[imron]

so if you have any further questions, send me a pm.

Or, even better, ask them here so that future readers can also benefit from the answer

[Lu]

Why does it seems that everyone says an one-hour or 45-min's commute (one-way) is horrible / nightmare? I think it is not unreasonable. I think in many cities many people spend this amount of (or more) time to commute to work during rush hours everyday.

How bad it is depends on the transport system, which in Beijing is not too great. The metro is packed to the gills, the buses are worse, taxis are gridlocked in traffic and biking is okay but not for very long distances (or perhaps I'm just lazy). I've had hour-long commutes in Taipei and Holland and didn't mind at all, but I wouldn't want one in Beijing if I could avoid it.

The other thing is, people who have long commutes usually have them out of necessity. They can't afford to live closer to work or already have a home with friends/family that would be hard to move from. If you're new to a city, with no previous attachments to places, you might as well find a place from which it's convenient to get to work/school.

[amandagmu]

The Liangma area isn't a bad suggestion, line 10 is nicer (if not also crowded) and I love spending time in the Northern (peaceful) sections of Chaoyang park. I actually really wanted to live in Phoenix City 凤凰城 at Sanyuanqiao when I first arrived... I have a friend who's there and her place is really nice, cheaper than same thing in Dongsishitiao area (she pays half the cost (!) of Season's Park and similar compounds). They also have their own subway stop exit (!). However, they were a bit pricey for me (1 bedrooms at 6500 RMB per month), most were new or almost-new, and often in compounds with amenities like gyms, take-out food of various quality/price, and small shops.

The only thing I'd be weary of is isolation and distance for the subway stop, especially if you stray too far west of Sanyuanqiao. I saw some places near Shaoyaoju and Taiyanggong that were a decent quality and price but they were more than 5-10 minutes to the subway stop and felt pretty cut off and isolated from much the rest of the city (in my opinion). They didn't have much life going on around outside the compound and I didn't think my Chinese would improve since I'd probably never leave the apartment unless required. For someone who has a steady job this might not be a big deal but for someone who is a doctoral student in Chinese history (me) this could have spelled disaster. I like interacting with old people in parks, shops, etc and I like to work at cafes. I needed to live in an environment like that, and I couldn't find that anywhere up there (at least not yet!).