Which Method Do You Think is the Most Efficient Way to Learn Chinese?

[ilovelanguage]

Hi Guys,

As a language learner, I have come across several methods to master the language better (including self-studying..solely?).

Of course there are many language schools I can physically attend to, doing it part-time/full-time. And at the school, you can meet the native speakers - your teachers, and other fellow classmates who love learning the language.

But despite the price's matter, I also think the new online learning is quite 'manageable' and people like me who has to work full-time can find the best time, e.g. at night/weekend to learn. i.e. Online live classes can be learning from the native speakers on Skype, online learning website etc.

And for 1-1 tutoring, the price can be between the the language schools and online live classes, and I guess the most benefiting would be: having more time to talk to your teacher.

What are the other pros and cons..?

One other thing is: one of the teachers I met says that Online Live Learning will dominate the future language education. Do you think it will happen? And it will happen soon?

Thanks for sharing your say!

ilovelanguage

[Hofmann]

I'd pick self study using a variety of materials if it was a choice. At the beginning, learn about the language using sources such as Wikipedia (although Wikipedia has its share of BS, it's getting better). This is IMO one of the most important steps. This protects you from BS, which will ambush you from all directions, especially when studying a Chinese language.

Next, depending on your goals, obtain a variety of learning materials. Most people would probably go for a university-level textbook. While reading (and working through) the textbook, one might obtain other materials such as audio lessons (e.g. Pimsleur) or software (e.g. Rosetta Stone).

Also, take advantage of specialized tools such as spaced repetition flashcard software (e.g. Anki) for remembering things, online discussion boards as a place to ask questions, language exchange communities (e.g. Lang-8 ), and popup translation software for reading text on the computer. Once you reach an intermediate level, you can start using materials intended for natives such as comics, video games, and of course novels.

And of course, hanging out with native speakers will help your conversational abilities. But don't inflate the value of native speakers. They're good at using the language. Not necessarily teaching, explaining, or even understanding it.

[ilovelanguage]

Hey, Hofmann, thanks for the comment! Many people suggest me online learning before, but I found there are two forms: 1) learning from audios/videos and flash cards (as you also suggested) 2) learning from online live classes.

But for 1) it's not easy to know if the pronunciation and tones are right - well no one to check for you at the spot ; and for 2) it's really hard to find good online site for live class with good teachers...some of them pick a random textbook and teach you...and some disappear after sometime (some skype teaachers)...quite struggling.

And, may I know what are the major differences of RosettaStones materials from the other sites', e.g. nciku, let's say?

Cheers and thanks for everyone who views and participate in this post.

btw, I edited the poll adding self-studying for those who use this method the most

[Pingfa]

What Hofmann said. The absolute best way to learn is by active participation, the more the better.

I would start off with basic learning material like Pimsleur or FSI Chinese to introduce you to the basics and give you a good foundation, then to learn from everything - find absolutely anything that tickles your fancy, movies, shows, books comics... the most effective way to be Chinese is to be Chinese.

As for pronunciation... many people say that with enough input output will come naturally.

I've read about a few cases of people massively improving output just through input; besides that, there's also the fact that many people pick up accents simply from so much exposure to them.

Either way, it's much more important to get input before output - as Khatz from alljapaneseallthetime.com says,

"Even if you can ask directions, can you understand the answer?"

[ilovelanguage]

"Even if you can ask directions, can you understand the answer?" - that's a good one!

Directions in any language is a tough one to learn about.

As for Chinese, I also found appreciation and apologies are tough too - these involve cultural things, e.g. Chinese may tend to apologize more than others..

[WestTexas]

personally I think it's good to take a couple of formal courses at first, to make sure you understand the basics. Then mostly self learning with a little bit of 1 on 1 tutoring thrown in. If you live in China it's really easy to find someone to tutor you for very cheap, or even free if you help them a little with their English. You have to find a good teacher tho.

My Chinese really isn't that good though, so maybe you shouldn't follow my advice.

I think the problem with learning too much Chinese only in the classroom is that, IMO, the majority of Chinese teaching literature is overly formal, overly standard, and generally doesn't match up that well with the way Chinese people actually talk. I find it 100% believable that a person could study in a classroom setting for years and still be unable to follow basic conversations with Chinese people unless the Chinese spoke in an extremely slow and artificial manner. Even in Beijing or the NE, which have 'more standard' accents, you have to really get out and talk to a lot of people outside of the classroom before your listening and vocabulary are going to match up with what's currently being used.

Just as a simple example, it seems few textbooks include phrases like 干啥呀, one of the most common ways to ask someone what they are doing and something I am asked practically every day here. Or the fact that seemingly every intro level book I have looked at lists "Where are you from?" as 你是从哪儿来的？ In actuality, I have lived in China for two years now and have been asked 你是哪里人 or 你是哪个国家的 by probably thousands of Chinese people, and have not been asked 你是从哪儿来的 even once so far as I can remember. This is what I'm talking about when I say that there is a big gap between the way people here actually talk and the teaching literature that's available.

[querido]

Despite my satisfaction over whatever I was able to self-learn, I voted "1-on-1 tutoring" as the irreplaceable centerpiece; almost everyone will also naturally self-learn as time permits, use *pods, etc.

I've had a tutor for about two months. It has been very fruitful.

[Silent]

I think the best way is a mix. I think the best results will be reached when you have a teacher who explains things, corrects you rigidly and is able to make and adjust a decent studyplan based on your needs and (lacking) skills. Then you need selfstudy to learn vocabulary and practice basic skills etc. and you need immersion to put your language to active use and internalise it.

[grawrt]

I agree with Silent.

In the begining its very important/helpful to get your pronunciation/tones/basics correct. The best way IMO is to have a 1-1 tutor or attend a SMALL group class (whatever fits your budget). When I first learned chinese it was at a free program at my library and they offered optional conversation classes, where they had a much smaller group and I was able to work on my pronunciation better than in the class. After, I took a chinese course at college, it was good but I think it was easy for me the first 2 weeks because they were focusing on tones and pronunciation but I dont think as well as the library did. When a class is too large often a teacher will just give up correcting a person to get on with the lesson (which is very bad IMO). This girl from my first semester class was also in my class next semester and her pronunciation is still very poor which I think is from noone correcting her or giving up. (she pronounces wo(I) as wu(5))

I think after that you can really get away with self-study, but it is essential to put your conversation skills to use (typically with a tutor or someone who speaks mandarin). This is my weak point that im tring to work on.

[Hofmann]

nciku is a dictionary, right? Rosetta Stone is language learning software that tries to emulate how first languages are learned. From what I've seen, it relies on sets of images and requires the learner to think about the relationship between the pictures and what is being said.

[Brandon-Learn Chinese]

In my opinion the best way to learn is by studying at a constant pace. If you start and stop it doesn't help. I personally believe that you can start with a private tutor or online tutor. Having a one to one class does work for some, and for others group is the best way.

At the beginner level, in my opinion, the is not much difference between a private tutor and an online class if there are decent resources provided and a clear connection. Also what medium you use, Skype, MSN, or online meeting software can make a difference. For example, we tried using Skype but it wasn't as useful for learning more than speaking, now we use WebEx and I find that its much more effective. The online class gives you the flexibility though.

Once you understand the basics, you need more than just one person to practice with. This would either mean taking group classes, changing your tutor (or getting another one), or both. The best way that I have found is by practicing with as many people as possible. Outside of the house, in class. Its about keeping a language environment. For example, when I'm not studying or doing anything important, I keep Chinese CCTV on in the house. While I am not "listening" the language doesn't sound as foreign as before. You start to pick out words and as you study you start to hear it more.

I would agree with one of the previous comments about the native speaker issue. Its a lot more about the teacher. However as your general knowledge improves, you must, I mean must, practice with a native speaker. A Beijing accent for example and the speaking patterns are hard to teach and when many "Chinese Language Students" come to Beijing, they have a difficult time understanding a local Chinese speaker.

For me, the most important way to remember is by writing and grammar drills. Others use flashcards. Rosetta stone is not bad, but you need to use all of these sources together, not only one or another. I have horrible language self study habits, but I can use it just fine in Chinese because I simply speak it everyday in Beijing. Self studying can reinforce what you learn and practice outside of class, and practice reinforces self studying.

One benefit of taking an online class, even a group class, is that if the teacher is not suitable you can choose another one as no cost. Although, that depends on the school. For example, ours has over 50 teachers so if one doesn't suite the students style they can switch. Other places are similar, but everyone would prefer to just get it right the first time. Also, to find the right tutoring it doesn't have to be expensive. You can get a professional teacher from Beijing for about $10 or less for a small online group class. I am referring to classes taught by teachers and not students. There can be a big difference in the structure or class and lessons depending on who you hired and their teaching background. The best way is to simply try them for free. There are so many resources for studying Chinese. I would simply suggest try one until you feel satisfied. Online schools and traditional schools can never guarantee the same teacher, but you can always take a class. Go for a school or online class that has a lot of resources behind it. This means investment, physical location, affiliates, and so forth. I hope this helps.

[ilovelanguage]

"I find it 100% believable that a person could study in a classroom setting for years and still be unable to follow basic conversations with Chinese people unless the Chinese spoke in an extremely slow and artificial manner. "

Totally agree! I found it quite true if you don't do it in the 'real-world' then the 'book' study will be quite useless.. Thanks WestTaxes. And like that you mentioned 干啥呀, as I have no idea what the Beijing people the first time I heard it!!

But just a little thinking - in case of we're not in China/anywhere surrounding by Chinese ppl, if having the formal literature can be not quite real, then what about the other option of 1-1 tutoring and online live learning.

And quite true that - pronunciation and esp. in Mandarin tones and sounds are so important..no one could know what you're talking about if not getting them right.

And IMO, I do watch CCTV (Channel 9 as well as Channel 4 - which we have that on SBS in Australia) - found it quite helpful. Besides, listening to song 'exotic ' Chinese songs can also help a lot.

Guys, since I'm new and having tried several comments in this forum, I REALLY like it here - nice and decent atmosphere!

And special thanks to: querido, silent, Hofmann, grawrt, and Brandon-learn Chinese - for your very detail comments.

Cheers guys. Hope all these can help others for learning the language too.

[imron]

in case of we're not in China/anywhere surrounding by Chinese ppl, if having the formal literature can be not quite real, then what about the other option of 1-1 tutoring and online live learning.

If the option of online live learning is available, then you can get plenty of real exposure to the language through other online methods - Chinese tv shows, movies, radio, newspapers, blogs, forums, and so on. All of these things are readily available online for anyone with an interest in seeking them out.

[2010laohu]

Definitely self-learning, if you are motivated and you already know some Chinese who are willing to help you.

[maverickwoman]

I am about to enrol myself and my two Aussie teenage daughters for a month of lessons in Beijing over December/ January....but this question vexes me....what modality/ school to choose??? am learing for business purposes, they want to learn more the popular vernacular because they want to stay on and live/ work/ study at Chinese university after.

All advice will be considered and appreciated!

[rezaf]

Self-learning but at least one year after formally studying at a language school. Self-learning at the beginning is a big waste of time just like a language school after a year or two. As for me, I do self- study plus an online class once every few weeks.

[renzhe]

I voted for self-learning, simply because I believe that any language learning (school, tutors, whatever) will have a very large portion of self-study.

But actually, you should use any and every resource available to you, and combine them. If you have a chance to, go to a formal class AND get a tutor AND study on your own AND watch as many movies and read as many books as you can. As long as it's possible, why wouldn't you?

Trying to do everything on your own is dangerous unless you have already learned a couple of languages and have experience. Good instruction can be worth gold in the beginning, especially in terms of noticing/correcting imbalances and providing a structured curriculum. Once you have a decent curriculum, use anything and everything you can. And I agree that discipline is crucial.

Classes worked for me up to a certain (lower intermediate) level, but I had a great teacher. I got plenty of tutoring from my girlfriend. But in the end, it was all the studying on my own that did most of the work.

[Ogräs]

I voted self-study, but of course the best way should be a combination. Maybe take a class and meet other learners, having a tutor to help with pronunciation and study a lot on your own (that's a big part no matter how you choose to learn). Self-study takes the most self-discipline since you have to decide every little step for yourself and keep on going.

I'm studying on my own and have had a lot of trouble deciding what to do and then stick to it, it was only when I decided to stick with one of my books and ignore the others until I'm done that I started to feel I was making any progress. Before I forgot more than I learned since I had too much to take in and remember from different sources that I never got anywhere. Now I just have to stick with this book until the end and then I can start with the next one. That's really hard for me, I cant even stick to reading just one book at a time.

[Gymnosopher]

Somehow I'm not all that surprised that 'self-study' is being rated up here, on a forum dedicated to Chinese, frequented by students of the language, doing something extra than following a class textbook..! So I do think it must really depend on the individual, as those of us at language schools can see many students in classes way above - it must be working for them right? Of course, it could be one of two things - that it works for them or that they've not tried anything else, but at my school in particular I've talked to a bunch of mid-intermediate learners who speak a handful of other languages too so I tend to feel that they like the lessons.

For me, self-study really didn't pan out for a while - studying for a degree full-time kinda makes you feel guilty if spending learning time elsewhere! I had also taken some weekly evening group-classes on and off too however again, motivation needs to be an element. Perhaps when you've invested a lot more into your language learning and aim to have it as part of your life then not taking it full time will be less of an issue (or so I'm hoping as I have little time before finishing my course and going to work!).

Structure must be the key, whether in 1-on-1 or group study, as just brushing on topics here and there with no cementing of what is being learnt could risk losing it all. And here lies the potential advantage of a group class over 1-on-1 in that in joining a challenging level class for your ability (as has inadvertantly been my case) you will be forced to work hard to get on sink as the lessons race away! I feel like I've already learnt an incredible amount in just 3 weeks (especially in reading where I had very few characters before) because of a steep learning curve that I needed to throw myself at and the repetition of textbooks (whether artificial or not) which allowed me to keep reviewing even basic characters I had formerly neglected to learn and keep using sentence structures I had no experience with.

[jkhsu]

So I do think it must really depend on the individual, as those of us at language schools can see many students in classes way above - it must be working for them right?

The reason I voted for self-study is not because I think self-study is the best and only way. I agree with renzhe's post (#17) in that you should take advantage of any and every resource available. If classes are available to you and you can take them, definitely take them, especially if it will expose you to other students and teachers to get feedback. I believe a combination of self-study, classes, tutoring, etc. is the best way, especially in the beginner and intermediate levels.

The reason I voted for self study is because at some point classes end and it's the self study habits (self-motivation, discipline, persistence, and the insanity of wanting to learn Chinese) that's going to pull you through. Sure, if you have the funds and time to continue tutoring at the advanced level, then definitely do it. However, at the end of the day, it's still going to be those self study habits that will determine how far you get.

What I've realized with learning Chinese (or any other language) in school vs. getting another type of degree is that to truely say you've learned Chinese, you have to go far and beyond what they teach in classes. In my view, classes only teach you a subsection of that level, but knowing only a subsection is not enough to even say you know that level. Let me give you a personal example. I took and finished the Chinese classes at this community college and got A's in all my classes. The books we used were the same ones used in Princeton, Columbia and Middlebury (one of the books was tested in Middlebury). They ended at the intermediate level equivalent to 2 years of college Chinese. Then I took a trip to China and looked at some intermediate level books in the bookstore. What I realized was that every new book had a lot of new words I didn't know. So then I started just buying various books and going through them on my own. That process of reading various books (just at the intermediate level) and remembering vocabulary has taken me way longer than the classes I took.

For most schools, you don't need to know every single word in the book to pass tests and once you've finished the books and passed your tests, that was it. However, to read and enjoy a book (similar to how you would in your native language), you need to know almost every word. Think about this, when was the last time you read an English book and had to even look up a few words per page? That alone would be a distraction to keep you from wanting to read. It's the same with Chinese. I couldn't find a single book at the intermediate level that I knew (almost) every word. In fact, I'd often find a few words in elementary / beginner books that I didn't know. That's when it struck me that even if you pass a Chinese language class with flying colors and knew every single word in the book/s that you've studied in class, you'd still have a lot more words outside of the classroom to learn before you can safely assume that you're at that level (at least in reading).

To really learn the language, you need to go beyond the classroom and utilize self-study methods / habits, which can include reading native material, using audio / visual media and creating an environment for yourself to promote conversations / writing (e.g. going to China and actively making friends to speak Chinese, using online resources for virtual conversations, finding a job that requires use of Chinese).

Finally, going back to why I quoted you in the beginning. You're right that you will see advanced level students at language schools but even they are probably only exposed to a cross section of material at that level in school. In my opinion, those who are serious about the language will have spent / are still spending a good amount of time using self-study habits / methods outside of the classroom.