Thailand - Indian or Chinese?

[woodcutter]

I've just returned to Korea from Thailand, and not a moment to soon......I hope the recovery from the terrible disaster goes smoothly.

Anyway, Thailand is an interesting place with a culture all of its own, but some of the guides we encountered seemed keen to emphasize Thailand's Indian heritage, rather than Chinese. I have never been to India, so I wondered if anyone who has been to India, China and Thailand could comment on which cultural influences seem stronger there?

[sunyata]

Hmm, I am in no way an authority on this subject, but if you take Thai names as an example, I think the lack of Chinese influence is quite apparent...

I still remember my Thai college friend's name - it was Jitapong Hotrabhavananda, and I think that wasn't his full name. Most Thai names definitely have more of an Indian background, than a Chinese one (excluding Chinese immigrant families).

I would like to hear more about this though from someone who is knowledgable in Thai, Indian and Chinese history...

[Cyberian]

Some Chinese that had been in foreign countries like Thailand, Malaysia, Indonesia, etc. for centuries have adopted local names or converted to local names despite that they are pure Chinese. Some just to blend in, and some because they were enforced by the government back then.

[gato]

Did you notice that Thais (not of Chinese descent) normally don't use chopsticks?

[HashiriKata]

Language, religion, architecture: all these in Thailand show marked influences by India.

I think Indian influence on Thailand is as strong as Chinese is on Vietnam, or Chinese on Korea.

[bhchao]

It is interesting to note that Thailand was one of the few countries to escape western imperialism during the late 19th and early 20th centuries. Its neighbors were not so lucky. The country was virtually a buffer zone between British-controlled Burma to the west and French-controlled "Indochina" to the east. Thailand was also able to retain its sovereignty despite being coerced into an alliance with Japan in World War Two.

This is an interesting thread Woodcutter. Although I am one-eighth Thai (my paternal grandmother was half Cantonese, half Thai), my paternal family and myself have no affinity with Thailand or its culture. It is not that we are adverse to it, we are just naturally more East Asian. I guess it's all in the genes.

Personally I am more inclined towards the Chinese and Korean cultures, and know very little about Thai history and culture. Anyways I plan to visit Thailand in the future despite the recent tragedy.

[marcopolo79]

Ethnic Chinese dominate certain areas and certain economic activites in Thailand, when I was last there in May nearly every jewelry shop I entered was managed and owned by ethnic Chinese (my Mandarin got me a discount on some bling bling!), they throughly dominate gold, finance, and a great deal of the larger Thai conglomerates are owned by ethnic Chinese. I sensed that there is still a sense of cohesive identity among Thai Chinese, in some of the larger provincial towns in the South where I travelled the 華人商會 was often located near the central commercial districts (they also seem to be under the sway of the PRC, I saw several signs denouncing the Chen Shui Bian's DPP in Nakhon and one other place the name of which I can't recall).

But the Thais have accepted the Chinese and the Chinese have integrated themselves into Thai culture more thoroughly than anywhere else in South East Asia (except for Singapore, where they are the majority). I think about 10% of the population of Thailand is ethnic Chinese, but the actual number of those people with some Chinese ancestry is probably much higher, I met several people who, after I told them I study in Taiwan, told me they were half Chinese, had a Chinese grandfather, etc.

Traditional Thai culture, being modeled upon Khmer culture, definitely can be considered within the Indian cultural sphere: in terms of religion (a mixture of Hinduism and Buddhism with local animist beliefs), alphabet (though not linguistically), literature (Ramayana as the national epic), government (King as avatar of Rama), architecture, etc.

But in terms of modern Thailand, the Chinese have played an integral role that belies their minority status. Given their status as full members of Thai society while still reataining, to a certain extent, their Chinese cultural identity, Thai Chinese have allowed an infusion of Chinese culture into contemporary Thai life. While that doesn't mean that Thailand is within the Chinese cultural sphere, I think it does indicate that Chinese civilization is now recognized as being a part of contemporary Thai life.

A perfect example: 中國娃娃

[Jack MacKelly]

There have been many ethnic groups and cultural infulences in Thailand through immigration, the historical wars and past trade routes. There is a large minority of Thai-malays and many other languages within the nations, groups like Thai, Chinese, histroical influence from Portugese and other langauges like Khmer and Lao. There is Siamese heritage, settlement from Portugese traders, Burmese invasion and reunification of Siam, its a bit difficult to describe what exactly Thailand has come from

[Pravit]

Most Thai names definitely have more of an Indian background, than a Chinese one (excluding Chinese immigrant families).

Actually most Chinese in Thailand adopt some Thai-sounding name. Mine is Chintawongvanich and my mother's maiden name was Tangwongphimuk. As you might have guessed my Chinese name is 王. But I don't know if this applies to more recent arrivals from China, if there even are any.

Did you notice that Thais (not of Chinese descent) normally don't use chopsticks?

No, actually, I didn't. Thais(and I mean Thai Thais) use chopsticks a lot when they eat, they just like to say they don't. Well, it does depend on the food that's being eaten, but rest assured you won't find any Thai that doesn't know how to use chopsticks. If Thais go to a Chinese restaurant they will use chopsticks. If they go to MK and have suki then they will use chopsticks. Even if they eat things that were originally Chinese but have been accepted as part of Thai food(thin rice noodles or something like that) they use chopsticks.

[Ian_Lee]

Actually if you know Chaozhouese, you could move around in Bangkok freely 20 years ago!

Even the Thai Royal family has Chaozhouese blood.

Even though Thailand is more influenced by Indian culture, Chinese minority has never been heavily persecuted as in those more sinicized societies like Vietnam was.

In fact, Thailand is the only country in SE Asia that does not have a record of persecuting the Chinese.

[gato]

Thais(and I mean Thai Thais) use chopsticks a lot when they eat, they just like to say they don't. Well, it does depend on the food that's being eaten, but rest assured you won't find any Thai that doesn't know how to use chopsticks.

So what kind of food don't they use chopsticks with? I use chopsticks even for salads and pancakes, so....

[Pravit]

I guess when they cook up a curry and eat it with rice, they'd use a spoon. Basically any foods eaten with rice. But the Chinese cooking has been adapted into Thai cooking so much that there are plenty of times when they would use chopsticks.

[wix]

Some people say Thai culture is half Indian and half Chinese. Its geographical position also makes it a natural junction for these two cultures.

The sense of Thai national identity is so strong that people that they usually think of themselves as just Thai though.

People of Chinese origin (mostly from Chaozhou) dominate many aspects of Thai society. However, most of the Chinese immigrants that arrived in the 19th century took Thai wives and became Buddhist hence they were merged into Thai society.

Obviously Thailand is strongly Buddhist and many words in the Thai language come from Pali. Less known is that some aspects of Hinduism and Brahmanism are preserved in the Thai culture. For example, the Thai kings have the name Rama and every year there is a Brahmanic ritual of ploughing the field with oxes to signify the start of the sowing and rainy season.

Chopsticks are used for eating some dishes in Thailand, but food is normally eaten with a fork and spoon. Actually this is only a recent thing. Until about 50 years ago most Thai people ate with their hands (as do Indians) and many people still eat with their hands in the north and northeast.

[gato]

Until about 50 years ago most Thai people ate with their hands (as do Indians) and many people still eat with their hands in the north and northeast.

Isn't that quite messy since they don't use nan (bread) to wrap the curry like Indians do?

[Pravit]

You got me there. But I know they eat sticky rice a lot in those rural areas, maybe they use that.

[pazu]

Thai eats sticky rice (khao niu) with fingers, I think it's quite convenient too. And one day at a food court, I took a pair of chopsticks plus spoon for my friends with a plate of rice, he just couldn't finish it until he got himself a fork.

[Pravit]

Yep, it's kind of hard to eat rice with those pesty dtagiap, it is.