Avoiding questions about income

[Cornelius]

Hi. I've noticed a common question I get asked a lot is how much money I make. Since I don't feel comfortable answering this question, especially to strangers, I was wondering if there are any smart or witty responses in avoiding the question. I don't want to be rude and answer, "It's none of your business", "Enough", or "F**k off".

[Claw]

The question came up before in a previous thread.

Here were some suggestions from that thread:

I usually "ha-ha" them and said "夠生活就好", some people are very persistent and kept asking, "哦我只是想知道個大概, 那大概有多少錢? 或者這樣, 一個大學生畢業後有多少錢?", in this case, give him or her a big smile like this: http://pazu.com/siu/108.gif[/img'], hehe, how ludicrous!

I once heard a good answer to the income question: 钱不多，够用。

...

Well' date=' the nice thing about this answer is that it does not say enough for what. It can be enough for surviving, or for studying overseas, or anything. well....it does somehow tend to come across as enough for living, but if you think about it, people do different things and their living expenses vary a lot. So actually the sentence does not tell anything about your financial situation.[/quote']

When people ask me how much I make' date=' I usually say "RMB100,000".

"You mean, per year?" they question.

"No, per month."

Upon hearing this answer, they wish they never asked such a silly, personal question.[/quote']

[Cornelius]

Yes, I should have searched first. Anyway, I like the "钱不多，够用" answer. It's vague, and humble sounding without coming across as being a complaint that you're poor. Maybe if we add something to it so it becomes something like, "Not too much, enough to spend, not enough to waste" that'll be even better. I don't know of an elegant way to say this though...

"钱不多，够用, bu gou lang fei" ?

[wushijiao]

I just answer the question honestly. Maybe we could live in a less materialistic world if we could say how much we earn, instead of telling it via cell phones, cars, clothes, gadgets and the like.

[Tsunku]

Yeah, I also tend to just answer the question. I know in the West income is something you don't usually discuss, but the Chinese consider it a perfectly reasonable question.

When I tell them how much I make, they are usually impressed, but not blown away. "It's enough. A lot for Kunming" is the usual response I get from people, but they are well aware that my salary is not earth shattering. I like to dispell the myth that we foreigners are all rolling in cash. I always remind people that there are plenty of Chinese people in this city who make a lot more than I do. There are also plenty who make less.

I think if I skirted the question it would just lead to the assumption that my salary must be so large that I am embarrassed to reveal it to a local.

[geek_frappa]

i agree...

Since I don't feel comfortable answering this question, especially to strangers, I was wondering if there are any smart or witty responses in avoiding the question.

you are in Beijing. when in Rome, do as the Romans do... if everyone shows their cards, you should too...

[owen]

I would really like to understand the thinking of the ones who think this is such a personal question. I think everyones income should be public knowledge. Its usually pretty simple in the west though.... people who make alot of money for doing very little don't want to tell their income (shame), peopl who are wage slaves are all too happy to tell (desire for empathy). Now that i live in asia and make, arguably, more than i deserve however, i find i still don't mind telling people how much i make. So, what is the key to getting genuinely paranoid and/or indignant when someone asks me?

[Cornelius]

I wouldn't go so far as to say those in very sweet jobs are ashamed to disclose their salary. I'd love for someone to pay me to do nothing. Anyway, it goes both ways. It's not inconceivable that some may be annoyed to learn about someone else doing similar/less work and getting paid more. Your right though, I think living in China has made me somewhat paranoid, sometimes needlessly. I would love to hear other people's experience though.

For me personally, I do sense jealously. The environment may be different in an academic workplace, but here in the financial district, there's some heavy competition where I'm at, which is low on the ladder with people trying to climb up to management positions. Believe me, some of the guys & gals I work with everyday will easily classify people based on how much they make, their background, clothes, and their height (I'm not joking). I didn't feel this before I came to China. I do now. In my case, I make more than my immediate supervisor, so disclosing my salary around work is bad bad bad. Man, I just want them to love me for who I am!

[tokyo_girl]

I usually answered more than the Chinese teachers but only just enough to pay my rent in Sydney if I were still living there!

[BeijingSlacker]

Yes, I should have searched first. Anyway, I like the "钱不多，够用" answer. It's vague, and humble sounding without coming across as being a complaint that you're poor. Maybe if we add something to it so it becomes something like, "Not too much, enough to spend, not enough to waste" that'll be even better. I don't know of an elegant way to say this though...

"钱不多，够用, bu gou lang fei" ?

I am probably overanalyzing this, but I personally wouldn't say "钱不多，够用, bu gou lang fei".

To me, it is a bit too long and can give the hearer the feeling that you are just beating around the bushes and basically saying everything but answer the question. In other words, they might think you are just teasing them.

Well, this complete depends on the person.

[GuernseyMatt]

I don't like discussing what I earn for two straight forward reasons.

If I am earning really good money then I think it is arrogant to show off in front of others.

If I am earning rubbish money, I am dissatisfied, and do not want to share bad feeling with other people.

I feel that most people who are curious enough to ask this question about earnings, are mentally comparing their own feeling of self worth to their own perception of the worth of the person they are asking.

There is a line from a poem called "desiderata" which says:

"do not compare your self to others, it will only make you vain or bitter"

Although I don't like being rude, it really is nobody elses business but mine what I earn.

I think the reply "enough" is good, as it maintains good humour and conveys an implied reluctance to be more specific.

[owen]

It seems like your two reasons could be used to justify refusal to answer almost any question. Like...

Do you enjoy your job?

I enjoy it enough.

Do you come from a large family?

Large enough.

Did you go to college or university to study?

I studied enough.

Do you come here often?

Often enough...... Now *&%$ off!!!!

Sounds like not so great a conversation to me and gives you a pretty clear idea of the tone of the speaker. I don't see why finding out about income is so different than finding out about where someone lives or what their hobbies are. As i said before i think its just because people in the west are used to making more than they know they deserve. Plus, we evaluate people based on their income.

[djwebb2004]

Cornelius, what is the point of studying Chinese if you are going to go around China refusing to answer any of the curious questions Chinese people may want to ask? why not go back to your country, safe in the knowledge that you never have to confront Chinese culture again? How about getting over yourself, and telling the Chinese the truthful answer. That's what I do. When in China, I do not presume the right to determine what is a rude and impertinent question. I assume people are asking questions that are not unusual in their cultural context, and yes, as a guest studying the language and the culture, I can tell them what they want. It makes me feel sad to realise how friendly most Chinese are to foreigners, and how uppity many foreigners are back.

[GuernseyMatt]

Dear Owen,

You obviously have your own unshakeable presumption that foreigners are earning far more than they are worth, and this seems to suit you.

Good for you! - may I recommend a psycologist so that you may address your inferiority complex.

I stated clearly why I don't like answering questions about my income, I don't presume to speak for the whole of western culture, only for myself.

I don't agree with your sarcastic rationale that the same answer of "enough" could be used for all other types of question. Some subjects are much less controversial than others and make a much more amiable conversation.

Some questions in some cultures are considered rude because the subject matter is considered private. What god given right have you got to pry into someone elses private business, and for that matter, what right have they got to pry in to yours?

It would be very easy to be rude to a rude question, so if you get the tolerant response of "enough" you may consider yourself fortunate that your face has been saved and the respondent is taking your culture into account.

[djwebb2004]

When you say some questions are considered rude in some cultures, you are forgetting YOU ARE IN CHINA. What makes you think that your culture is superior to theirs? These questions are considered rude in the West, but there is no reason why that should be a factor in China, unless you consider your own culture has a kind of universal primacy over all others and in all territories regardless. My solution: get the plane home and stop learning Chinese. You are obviously not suited to dealing with other cultures.

[Green Pea]

I think this question is less common than it used to be. When salaries were fairly uniform, it was an acceptable question among Chinese and discussing them was not a point of contention. Income disparity has increased for some people in the last few years. Many Chinese people I know who make good money are not comfortable discussing their incomes. The culture is changing.

I also think the specific situation you are in can dictate your answer. I do think the question is personal, as I was quoted above, but I usually don't have a problem answering truthfully.

[GuernseyMatt]

Dear djwebb,

I don't think my culture has primacy over others, on the contrary I am a well travelled individual who has seen and enjoyed many different cultures around the world, and China is one of my favourite.

I make full consideration of my actions and behaviour when in foreign cultures. For one example - in Thailand I would ensure that when laying on the beach the soles of my feet should not be pointing in the direction of any local people. I beleive in being considerate and polite.

It is easy to get the wrong impression of somebody over the internet as every subtle nuance of expression is (mis)interpreted, but I don't like the attitude of some people who think that foreigners should remove and abandon their culture just because they have crossed borders. Cultural identity is not somthing that can be taken off and discarded like clothes that are no longer in fashion.

I am certainly not an "uppity type" and I will reiterate that the answer "I earn enough" is the polite response rather than "none of you business"

Looking at your other posts, I can see a pattern emerging concerning the "go home if you don't like it" mantra.

Do you really consider this action every time something unsavoury happens to you in China, have you such a maleable mind that you can make polar changes at will which enable you to stay?

[yonglan]

The reason I don't answer this question anywhere in East Asia is that even if you make the same money, you're comparing apples to oranges. I dare say no foreigner in EA, certainly no English teacher, get's paid the way Asians do. So, if you say I make x per hour teaching, they assume you get that for 40 hours or more per week.

More commonly they will ask you how much per month. If you say I make x per month, they automatically add on two (or more) sometimes very large bonuses.

Though East Asians are not in the habit of talking about total yearly income, that is the only way to talk about salary without confusion.

This is to say nothing of the fact that virtually no one seems to understand that all the furniture and electronics a foreigner buys are sold for dirt cheap or given away after a year or two as opposed to getting used for many years. And then there's the air ticket both ways, visa fees, and the fact that you are away from friends and family in a way most people you meet have no frame of reference for. Everything is very different and challenging for you and in Taiwan, China, and Korea not as clean or unpolluted as you are used to (to put it gently). And in China there's also the fact that a lot of money there is still (probably) very little where you're from.

So, I just say something like 我忘記,我的數學不好

[Edit: I just saw Green Pea's answer here

http://www.chinese-forums.com/viewtopic.php?p=31438#31438

I love it!]

[owen]

Geurnsey,

I don't think i have any kind of raging inferiority complex but i live in a dorm with Filipinas who work 12 hour shifts, live six to a room (i have my own 12' by 16' room, and get paid about a tenth of what i do. I work pretty hard and probably have a little more pressure and responsibility than they do, but i think their wage is more than unjust. I think its outrageous. I think alot of westerners happily ignore these facts. I'm guilty too since i'm not exactly divying up my earnings with them, but still, admitting the injustice is a start.

I'm worth something but the fact that the language i speak is the most sought after is just a lucky toss of the dice for me. And i think most people dont like the idea of forced into gambling from birth.

Have you ever heard the expression "can't hurt to ask", why should it hurt you so much?

You have yet to give a reason for the question being personal. All you have said is that its personal cuz its controversial cuz its personal cuz its my business and making us all dizzy. Why is it personal?

Openness is to be strived for.

in Thailand I would ensure that when laying on the beach the soles of my feet should not be pointing in the direction of any local people.

Observing such a miniscule and i daresay laughable part of the culture is way more subversive to your own culture than answering income questions. Most people observe those annoying little rules just to demonstrate some trivial superficial travel knowledge they have that someone else doesn't. I don't observe cultural practices that remind me of the rules of a drinking game like 'uh-oh you let your left pinky finger touch your right leg and thus offended the locals... now slam that tequila'.

[djwebb2004]

What a ridiculous posting, Owen! I feel embarrassed that so many supposedly educated Westerners can only spout left-wing rhetoric as a substitute for thought! Why is it unjust that Filipinos get lower wages? Start engaging those grey cells!! The UK is a prosperous country and the Philippines is a poor country owing to cultural factors and to the quality of leadership in those countries. Why didn't the Philippines conquer one-quarter of the world? Why is not Tagalog the main language of international communication? It is because the Philippines is a low-achieving nation, and always have been - and that is not our fault!! Countries like Malaysia that realise that it is up to them if they want to be more prosperous have risen up the food chain, whereas countries with corrupt cultures like the Philippines remain where they are. That is hardly our fault. We in the UK deserve our position in the world - and so do the Filipinos! Have you checked out the average IQ level in the Philippines recently?