How would my Canto be if....

[paperbagprince23]

I was looking up a few words in a dictionary today, and found that many (if not all) of the characters that shared the same pronunciation in Putonghua, also had the same pronunciation with characters in Canto. What I mean by that is, just as 东， 岽， 冬 and 动 were all "dong" in Putonghua, so were they all "dung" in Canto. ( I had a feeling this would be the case)

I am wondering then, if I were just to study the equvilent pronunciations, and speak Putonghua but with Canto pronunciation, how would my Cantonese be?

I am aware that Canto has, what is it, 9 tones? So, excluding that, how would it be. How much of Canto expressions are the same in Mandarin. am sure many of the newer slang would differ, but just generally speaking, if I was to learn Canto this way, how good or accurate do you think it would be? Would people be able to understand me?

Does every character that shares the same pinyin in Putonghua, do the same in Canto? Is this true for all dialects?

[Hofmann]

if I were just to study the equvilent pronunciations, and speak Putonghua but with Canto pronunciation, how would my Cantonese be?

Your Cantonese pronunciation may be fine, but you'll be using the wrong vocabulary and sometimes grammar.

Does every character that shares the same pinyin in Putonghua, do the same in Canto?

No. Example: shí.

[xiaocai]

I am wondering then, if I were just to study the equvilent pronunciations, and speak Putonghua but with Canto pronunciation, how would my Cantonese be?

Doesn't sound like a good idea. I think not too many people will understand you. And even if they do they will think your Cantonese is very funny. And the worst is they can probably understand you but it will be extremely difficult for you to understand them if you learn it this way.

Does every character that shares the same pinyin in Putonghua, do the same in Canto? Is this true for all dialects?

This is not always true. There are always exceptions in languages and phonetic mapping between Mandarin and Cantonese is far from perfect match, not to mention Mandarin is missing the whole "entering tone" group of which the finals have to be remembered individually in your case.

[paperbagprince23]

Okay; that is kinda what I thought. I guess I will have to learn it the old fashioned way...

[Michaelyus]

Converting automatically from Mandarin to Cantonese seems to be as arduous as simply learning Cantonese from scratch. The plan of attack I unconsciously started using was:

- learn which ones are 入声 (actually, not quite as hard as it sounds; my Mandarin at home preserved quite a few of them as glottal stops; plus there's the rule of thumb that: if it's Mandarin 2nd tone, and doesn't end in a nasal in standard Mandarin, but starts with pinyin b-, d-, g-, j-, z-, zh-, it's likely to be 入声; there's a few more such rules derived at the Chinese Wikipedia page for it: http://zh.wikipedia.....96.B9.E6.B3.95)

- learn which tones can correspond to which (Mandarin 1st to Cantonese 1st, Mandarin 2nd to Cantonese 4th, Mandarin 3rd to either Cantonese 2nd or 5th, Mandarin 4th to either Cantonese 3rd or 6th [Wikipedia says 5th as well...?]).

- try not to get caught up in distinguishing the high falling tone and the high level tone - nobody knows the rules yet anyway...

- get a feel for how the consonants correspond to each other (it is well known that Mandarin has a wider range of consonants, so this is among the easier steps. One thing to watch out for possibly, in the Mandarin to Cantonese direction, is pinyin j-, q- corresponding to g- and k- as well as z- and c- [in Jyutping]).

- remember changed tones (not tone sandhi)!

For something that looks pretty in-depth, http://www.chinahist...-and-cantonese/. An easier list to 背 (Mandarin pinyin to Cantonese Yale): http://www.chinese-l...artMandarin.htm

Vocab- and grammar-wise (i.e. in actual usage), trying to put in a conversion 'system' is certainly more difficult. You'll just make up a list of rules like the Reichenau glosses, which are likely to be incomplete anyway. Some of them are OK - do not use 您 but use 你, do not use 他/她/它 as a pronoun but use 佢, do not use 们 but use 哋 (or however you prefer to write it), do not use 給 but use 畀 (with inverted syntax for the indirect and direct object) etc. etc.

Such 'shortcuts' save on mental effort and guide you to a fairly basic level of comprehensible though mostly incorrect Cantonese. I seemed to get it about a third 'right', although it seems like most people I speak to have a good knowledge of Mandarin and Mandarin-isms anyway. Plus they seem to be in the more patient demographic. Of course, once this groundwork is well-established, it becomes a good frame of reference for learning new things without too much extra effort. It's the payback of the two languages having a common history, and I personally don't mind relying on it while keeping myself open to their distinctions. I've survived with it between English and French (and that's just vocabulary in common really)!

[chiuyan]

I am wondering then, if I were just to study the equvilent pronunciations, and speak Putonghua but with Canto pronunciation, how would my Cantonese be?

This thread http://www.cantonese...1,109935,109951 explains some of the most common grammar differences between Cantonese and Mandarin, and of course there are the numerous vocab differences too, so your Cantonese might be understandable because nearly all Cantonese speakers are familiar with standard Chinese, but it would be very hard to follow.

Does every character that shares the same pinyin in Putonghua, do the same in Canto? Is this true for all dialects?

Here is a particularly good example of this not being the case:

For example, the characters, (裔,屹,藝,艾,憶,譯,懿,誼,肄,翳,邑,佚) are all pronounced yi4 in Mandarin, but they are all different in Cantonese (jeoi6, ngat6, ngai6, ngaai6, yik1, yik6, yi3, yi4, si3, ai3, yap1, and yat6, respectively).