nipponman Posted January 17, 2005 at 01:30 PM Report Share Posted January 17, 2005 at 01:30 PM doesn't 看的（得）可憐 mean "look pitifully" like that is the way that you are looking and not "look pitiful"? Wouldn't that be 看起來可憐? just like.看得清楚 means "can see clearly". Am I missing something??? Any help would be apprieciated. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
xiaocai Posted January 17, 2005 at 02:41 PM Report Share Posted January 17, 2005 at 02:41 PM "起来"的后面要接动作对象的状态;"得"的后面要接动作的状态. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nipponman Posted January 17, 2005 at 06:56 PM Author Report Share Posted January 17, 2005 at 06:56 PM Right, so (if I understood you correctly) why then does http://humanum.arts.cuhk.edu.hk/cgi-bin/agrep-lindict?query=%aa%ba&category=wholerecord linyutang's dictionary say 看的（得）可憐means "look pitiful." Wouldn't that be the act of looking being pitiful and not the recipient of the looking being pitiful? Difficult to explain. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
xiaocai Posted January 18, 2005 at 10:00 AM Report Share Posted January 18, 2005 at 10:00 AM 不太清楚。这个链接的内容和我以前学过的不太相同。 目前中国大陆地区并没有合并“的”、“地”、“得”的用法，也没有“看的可怜”这种说法。 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HashiriKata Posted January 18, 2005 at 10:44 AM Report Share Posted January 18, 2005 at 10:44 AM I don't think "看的（得）可憐" is a good example, especially for learners. Neither is 看起來可憐 (It looks wrong to me.) If you just forget these two examples and tell us what in the structures of these that you want to know, I & others may be able to help. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
xiaocai Posted January 18, 2005 at 01:07 PM Report Share Posted January 18, 2005 at 01:07 PM "看起来可怜"没什么问题啊,很常用的一种结构."看起来"可能意思和"seem"差不多. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HashiriKata Posted January 18, 2005 at 02:32 PM Report Share Posted January 18, 2005 at 02:32 PM Thanks for pointing that out, xiaocai! (我的知识还贫乏得可怜. ) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nipponman Posted January 18, 2005 at 04:34 PM Author Report Share Posted January 18, 2005 at 04:34 PM I can't read simplified chinese (very well) so I'm not sure if this is has already been addressed but, if you noticed, 看得可憐 was the original question, this is what I want to be answered. I don't understand how it can be translated as "look pitiful" when 看起来可憐 makes much more sense. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HashiriKata Posted January 18, 2005 at 05:29 PM Report Share Posted January 18, 2005 at 05:29 PM OK, I don't think 看 combines very well with 得可憐 , and xiaocai seems to think similarly. If and only if, however, this combination is acceptable, then it can only mean "look pitifully", and NOT "look pitiful", judging by the grammar. From what I know, 得可憐 can be preceded by an adjective (and not by 看) such as 少，瘦，穷，etc. to describe some extreme degree of an undesirable quality: 少得可憐 瘦得可憐 窮得可憐 In fact, my reply to xiaocai above has this structure: 我的知識還貧乏得可憐 (= My knowledge is still pitifully lacking) Even knowing that 我的知識還貧乏得可憐, I'm only trying to help. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nipponman Posted January 18, 2005 at 06:16 PM Author Report Share Posted January 18, 2005 at 06:16 PM Ahh, ok thanks hashirikata-san, I couldn't read your reply either ( ) I guess the writer of linyutang made a slight error in that translation. 得可憐 is a set phrase I'm assuming. Thanx xiaocai, and hashirikata for all your help. nipponman Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HashiriKata Posted January 19, 2005 at 08:18 AM Report Share Posted January 19, 2005 at 08:18 AM 得可憐 is a set phrase I'm assuming. I don't think it is a set phrase. I put the elements together only for separating them from the preceding element (the Adj in the examples). The phrases I cited have this structure: Adj + 得 + 可憐 [Adj + to the extent + one feels pity] Cheers, Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nipponman Posted January 19, 2005 at 03:16 PM Author Report Share Posted January 19, 2005 at 03:16 PM What I meant was that you won't find that structure with other adjectives (can't write in chinese on this computer) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Quest Posted January 19, 2005 at 04:01 PM Report Share Posted January 19, 2005 at 04:01 PM what's 看得可怜? is it from your book? 看起来很可怜 = sth looks pitiful Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HashiriKata Posted January 19, 2005 at 04:26 PM Report Share Posted January 19, 2005 at 04:26 PM Pleased to see you still alive, Quest! Been up to anything mentionable? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
studentyoung Posted January 20, 2005 at 09:25 AM Report Share Posted January 20, 2005 at 09:25 AM 目前中国大陆地区并没有合并“的”、“地”、“得”的用法，也没有“看的可怜”这种说法。 对！但大陆的许多人在用“的”、“地”、“得”的时候也常常张冠李戴。(Right! But in China mainland, many people don’t use “的”,“地”,“得”properly. ) 张冠李戴: confuse one thing with another http://cb.kingsoft.com/search?s=%E5%BC%A0%E5%86%A0%E6%9D%8E%E6%88%B4&t=word〈=utf-8 adj./n./pron. + 的 = adj. 漂亮的/北京的/我的 adj. + 地 = adv. 含蓄地/认真地 v. + 得 + adj. (Here the adj. qualifies the V. 这里形容词修饰动词。) 说得好/想得绝 “看的可怜”这里应该是“看着可怜”。 这狗看着可怜，你就别吓唬它了。 The dog looks pitiful. Please don’t frighten it any more. linyutang's dictionary say 看的（得）可憐means "look pitiful." I think the problem is here. Right, Mr. Linyutang was a great literature and scholar in both Chinese and Western culture. But he was in the period of “the May 4th Movement in 1919五四运动” and “New Culture Movement新文化运动” which made the modern Chinese (现代汉语) come into being, when he was a scholar at Beijing University. And in these two movements, the modern Chinese was just on the stage of its bud. “的”,“地”,“得” were not clearly pointed out how to use in from those days to liberation of China. （我想问题就在这。不错，林语堂先生是位伟大的文学家，又是学贯中西的饱学之士。但当他在北京大学做学者的时候，正处于“五四运动”和“新文化运动”时期，而现代汉就是语在这两个运动中形成的。在这两个运动中，现代汉语正处于萌芽状态，“的”、“地”、“得”从当时到中国解放前一直没有很明确地划分该如何使用。） (Note: From historical point of view, the modern Chinese came into being in “New Culture Movement”, to be exact. But “the May 4th Movement in 1919” and “New Culture Movement” has a cause and effect relationship in history and these two movements interacted each other at the same time， So I mentioned the two both here.) (注：从历史观点看的话，准确地说，现代汉语是在“新文化运动”中形成的。但“五四运动”和“新文化运动”在历史上有因果关系，而且这两个运动同时又互相影响，故此我在这里两个运动都提到了。) Chinese friends here, please slight check the articles written by Luxu鲁迅or Hushi胡适 during this period, you will find out what happened.（这里的中国朋友，请稍看看那个时期鲁迅和胡适写的文章就知道是怎么回事了。） Foreign friends here, please notice that the modern Chinese in 1919 could not be the same as it is in 2005.It has been changing all the time. My English teacher tells me,” Don’t use a dictionary with old age, and change your dictionaries each five years.” (这里的外国朋友请注意， 1919年的现代汉语不能跟2005年的现代汉语相提并论。我的英文老师告诉我：“不要用老掉牙的字典，而且字典要每五年换一次。”) 相提并论：mention in the same breath http://cb.kingsoft.com/search?s=%E7%9B%B8%E6%8F%90%E5%B9%B6%E8%AE%BA&t=word〈=utf-8 I think, just as what Mencius said, “Completely believing in contents in a book is worse than you haven’t read it.”（我想正如孟子所说，“尽信书则不如无书。”） Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
xiaocai Posted January 20, 2005 at 12:20 PM Report Share Posted January 20, 2005 at 12:20 PM 我们老师告诉我说，在他上中学的时候，三个“di”似乎被混用过一段时间。所以，虽然从理解上面没有问题，但是要在使用中分清楚，对他来说是一件困难的事情。 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nipponman Posted January 20, 2005 at 12:49 PM Author Report Share Posted January 20, 2005 at 12:49 PM Even thought the question has been answered, so as not to disrespect quest, I got 看得可怜 from linyutangs dictionary and studentyoung has answered my other (otherwise unanswered ) question about is linyutangs dictionary outdated. Which I believe it is. Thanx everyone nipponman Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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