Smoking in A13 HIT 哈工大

[Mactuary]

Hello dear forum members,

I have just recently arrived in HIT and I've loved it. I've already made so many friends in 4 days. I'm really looking forward to the Chinese course as a CSC student. However, as the title suggests smoking is a big problem for me.

Many people don't really care about inhaling second hand smoke, but it really bothers me and I'm sure there are some people who are also in the same boat.

I live in A13 (people say this is the good dorm!?), it is a two room (2 people/room) flat. My roommate is a dream roommate, he is also a non smoker (like me), though how he withstands the smoke is beyond me at this point. However, the people in the other room loooove to smoke. But not only that, they invite their friends to have smoking parties. They smoke in the common area in the flat, to which I'm not afraid to venture. Initially I didn't mind it because the smoke doesn't really go into my room, but after a while and a few more people smoking, the smoke finally penetrates into my room. Also, since the bathroom is also shared I have to go through the smoke in order to get to the bathroom. Also the bathroom stinks of smoke. And the corridor stinks of smoke. Everything smells of smoke.

Anyway, I just want some advice on how to deal with this situation. I haven't talked to the smokers about this yet for a few reasons:

1. I don't speak Chinese very well (they're Vietnamese).

2. They seem to be nice people, I don't want to sour what little relation we have.

3. I'm not sure telling them not to smoke will do any good. Maybe they will smoke more to spite me.

People tell me that smoking in the dorm is technically forbidden, is there a way to "activate" this golden rule and have it reinforced in China, china china....?

At the moment my options are:

1. Ask to move to another unit in the same building. Hopefully no one will smoke in the unit, though who knows (this information was not asked in the registration).

2. If that doesn't work, then I'll try to find the rule about smoking in the dorm and contact the HIT staff to see if it has any power.

3. If that doesn't work then I'll try to find housing in another building in HIT, building 6 perhaps. Though people say that the facilities are worse than A13, and having seen the facilities of my unit...that does not bode well at all.

4. Otherwise I can try to find accommodation outside of HIT. Though I don't think CSC scholarship will pay for outside housing, I'm not even sure whether they will still pay for the 600rmb/month to me. I'm not sure how much apartments cost in general, any information on that?

5. If it's too much then I'll just go back home to Sydney, the land of being able to choose whether or not to get lung cancer.

What are your thoughts?

Regards,

A polymath wannabe, Mactuary.

ps: does this actually work http://video.sina.co...1982382042.html ? Look at the video.

Thanks for reading such a long post, perhaps if you are in 哈尔滨 we can meet and have a chat. I'm learning Korean, Russian, French and Arabic as well as Chinese.

[abcdefg]

Option 4.

Otherwise I can try to find accommodation outside of HIT.

[muirm]

I really relate to you in regards to this problem. Although I'm unable to offer any useful advice, I wholeheartedly commiserate with you. I had a similar, although not as severe, situation at work, which I chronicled in a silly blog post here (Blogger... sorry 大陆). The moral of the story is I successfully caused an unenforced rule to become enforced, thereby stopping/blocking the smoke. However, it's important to point out I wasn't able to use the "technically not supposed to smoke here" rule that you have available.

If I had to choose among the options, I would agree with abcdefg. Even if you can't smell it, the second-hand smoke is still getting you, so moving into your own place is the best way to protect your health (assuming you can't find a smoke-free dorm). Another idea is to get an air purifier for your room. We got one for our apartment in Beijing and it certainly does a bang-up job. Be sure it includes a HEPA filter though, otherwise you probably won't be filtering any of the tobacco pollutants (I found the Chinese packaging didn't advertise "HEPA", but after Googling around I was able to confirm the model I was looking at included a HEPA filter before buying).

[roddy]

If there's a no smoking rule, it'll be on a folder of info in your room, or on a noticeboard, or something. But basically you need to

a) Ask nicely.

b) Ask for a room transfer, specifically saying it's because of the smoke. That'll give the management an opportunity to either do something about it themselves, or at least shift you to a non-smoking apartment)

c) Move out. You won't be able to take your CSC accommodation money with you though.

Alternatively, install a smoke alarm for 'safety' reasons.

[langxia]

you should talk to them first, ask them not to smoke in the common room. and if they want to smoke in their room to close the door. if they don't listen then think about other steps.

[jbradfor]

Look around the dorm. Are lots of people smoking there? If so, I don't think it's your place to go to a foreign country and start expecting to change everyone's habits, so if that's the case I suggest:

Option 6: Get used to it. You're in China now.

[icebear]

I'll agree with abcdefg or jbradfor, either move out or get used to it. You're likely to only ruffle feathers if you complain adamantly (i.e. nothing will actually change except their opinion of you), and even if successful there you will invariably be dealing with a second hand smoke environment in 95% of the other places you spend time. I don't mean to berate you, but just to present the situation as I see it - second hand smoke is a fact of life China, like the pollution, that one is better off coming to terms with before arrival.

[Mactuary]

Thanks for the advice, I'll try to see if I can move out first. Then I'll just take the steps listed above, including the one I really didn't want to consider at all (option 6).

Actually last night they invited their friends and were very loud talking at night, I couldn't sleep. So I asked them nicely, but that didn't work (so much for thinking that they're a nice bunch of people). So I went downstairs and "talked", I couldn't understand anything he said, to the security guard at the counter, who was very reluctant to come up. Anyway they must've seen me go down because when I came back up everything was quiet as a whistle and they're friends are all gone too. The security guard stood outside telling something like "What? It's not noisy here.". Anyway the security guarded ended up talking to the Vietnamese people, so much for not ruffling feathers.

Looks like I have to get used to living in a dorm, and a Chinese one at that too.

I'll keep you updated with my progress or lack thereof.

Also, a Russian guy upstairs was loudly Skyping and I could hear them, grrhhh! Lack of sleep and smoke will make me sick very quickly.

[yialanliu]

Move off campus if you can't get used to it. From the way your posting I think the entire building is something your not going to like.

When you move off campus, you get to have your own room and hopefully a 2 bedroom will only have 2 people ionstead of the 4 you have right now which will in general make it better as well.

By the way, be prepared to pay a steep increase in cost.

[Mactuary]

Well it would be really steep indeed since I'm not paying anything at the moment, how much is the rent usually?

[xiaoxiaocao]

Even off campus you are going to have to prepare yourself for these kinds of things. Neighbors banging away redecorating their homes, people smoking in elevators, car horns honking, fireworks early in the morning etc. If you plan on staying in China long term these are things you are just going to have to deal with.....

[yialanliu]

I have not rented in Harbin but I have been there and I think it would be safe to assume that a qualtiy western apartment should go for around 2k RMB a bedroom in a 2 or 3 bedroom split per month.

[animal world]

Please don't even think of giving up on your China dream so that you can return to smoke-free Sydney! That would be very sad and you will probably regret it for a long time. On the other hand, off-campus housing is very expensive in your situation. So, this is what I suggest: Diplomacy!

1) Make sure that your apartment is truly supposed to be non-smoking. If it's not, let management transfer you and your room mate to an apartment/building that is.

2) Solicit the help from your non-smoking room mate. Don't tackle this smoking problem on your own.

3) Explain to the two Vietnamese guys in the other room how much smoking is bothering the two of you, that is technically against the rules, yadayadayada. You say in your opening post that they are nice guys. So, have a nice conversation with them and see what you could offer them in return for them not smoking in the apartment. I just did a little googling and it seems that Vietnam is rather new in adopting No Smoking laws and compliance isn't very good there. Your two Vietnamese apartment mates may not even realize how their smoke is bothering the two of you. If they are, like you, very recent arrivals to China, they may be nervous/homesick/whatever and ask other Vietnamese buddies over to spend the night smoking their discomforts away.

4) Locate other non-smokers in your building and see whether the Vietnamese smokers would be willing to exchange rooms with them if the Vietnamese don't want to give up their smoking habit.

Look for off-campus housing only if the above suggestions, or something similar, don't work out. Good luck! Hope you will have a roaring good time in Harbin!

[yialanliu]

PKU only enforced the non smoking policy within Guanghua this year. Technically, PKU is entirely smoke free but that's not true and everyone knows it.

Harbin being a tier 2 city at best probably has smoking too engrained to change. This is one of those situations where the rules are probably not going to be enforced especially when smoking is considered normal and only the "liberal" people are trying to change it. Not saying they are wrong, just picture it that way and understand that many times things are much harder to change than just slapping on a rule even if it is countrywide.

I don't recommend going 2 v 2 on this situation. This is something you bring up yourself and not involve others. Or else it becomes too confrontational. Just be nice and ask if it would be okay to limit it within their own bedroom. Frame it not as a policy of the rule but on personal discomfort. If you frame it as a rule, it's way too confrontational as well.

In all seriousness, asking for new dorms is okay from a western perspective. But if I was the building manager, I'd be like "are you seriously that hard to appease?" From a western perspective, this might be intolerable. But in China this is pretty normal and there's a bridge there in terms of standards that we have that people don't care about in China as much. So try other methods before doing this. Asking for enforcement of rules just isn't worth it.

[Mactuary]

I asked one of the staff who is in charge of the rooms, luckily there were a few vacant and she gave me a list of the vacant rooms. I wandered around and found two nice Indonesian guys who are quite clean and don't smoke. The whole unit seems very agreeable, so hopefully all my accommodation stress will stop after I've moved. Let's hope I don't have to worry about all the options.

[realmayo]

If so, I don't think it's your place to go to a foreign country and start expecting to change everyone's habits, so if that's the case I suggest:

Option 6: Get used to it. You're in China now.

I disagree. Consider: China is a noisy place -- so if there's one person in the dorm who plays their music super loud meaning you can't study, you wouldn't consider either asking them to keep it quiet or moving to a quieter room?

The OP is not trying to "change everybody's habits", and anyway the smokers in question are Vietnamese not Chinese. Plus the dorms may well be non-smoking, and 99% of the foreign students there might be respecting that.

It's very possible the Vietnamese don't see anything antisocial with smoking or with having noisy friends visit (the university I was at Vietnamese guys were seen as the loudest neighbours, Korean girls the quietest), so this isn't a question of moral blame or anything. If it was me I'd do as the OP appears to have done, scout out a more suitable room and look to move there. After you have moved in you could indicate to the staff that your lungs are sensitive to cigarette smoke or something, simply to explain why you've given them the hassle of helping you switch rooms. Shame you'll miss the chance to learn some Vietnamese though, I love the sounds of that language!

[anonymoose]

Shame you'll miss the chance to learn some Vietnamese though

Well, on the plus side, he'll now be able to learn Indonesian, which is much much easier, especially for a native English speaker.

[el_mandarindo]

ahh the smoke of 十三公寓。 yes, I know all about it. I just spent a semester here. I was lucky in that my roommate knew I didn't smoke, so went outside, or had the occasional bathroom smoke. his friends (koreans and mongolians) loved to come drink, and really loved to smoke, but they usually did it in the hallway.

smoking is technically not allowed in shi san gong yu (student dorm), but it is completely tolerated at the ends of the hallway on each floor. The majority of smokers with non smoking roommates take advantage of this.

I do not agree with the advice given: move out or put up with it.

In most cases in China, that is spot on, but having lived here at HIT in the building you are speaking of, I can tell you that your situation----a very unhappy non smoker drowning in heavy daily second hand smoke---is not typical.

you have to ruffle the feathers. explain that you cant have constant smoking, that you want them to go to the hallway. but be nice, don't nit pick if they smoke once in a while, or with friends drinking.

and next time they have ppl over---go introduce yourself. party a bit. and when its late (parties in this building should be kept to friday saturday, and if during the week 11/12 finish is max), tell them your tired and go to sleep. they'll feel shitty to keep you up after you've been so gracious.

you can try that and/or just move to another room. most foreign students here dont smoke or do so in the hall. your room is in the minority.

I"d move.

final thought: my reason for suggesting you don't leave 13 building is because it is awesome. if you are a serious student (read: will not speak ANY more english than necessary), then being with all these other ppl studying is wicked speaking opportunities. the study zone on the second floor is full of 认真学生 （did I spell that right??)

I came here not speaking any chinese last fall and made lots of chinese and foreign friends, but for those first three months it was way easier to speak with and understand my foreign friends than my chinese ones. if I had lived off campus right away, I'd have been less exposed to that level of the language.

moving off campus is great, but better for second semester.

in closing---dont take that smoking bullshit. put your foot down.

[jbradfor]

If so, I don't think it's your place to go to a foreign country and start expecting to change everyone's habits, so if that's the case I suggest:

Option 6: Get used to it. You're in China now.

I disagree. Consider: China is a noisy place -- so if there's one person in the dorm who plays their music super loud meaning you can't study, you wouldn't consider either asking them to keep it quiet or moving to a quieter room?

You quoted me out of context, please don't do that.

I said to look around, and see if lots of people are smoking. That is what the "If so" refers to in the part you quoted, but you "conveniently" left out the rest.

Back to your example, if everyone was noisy, then I would not suggest that you ask your roommates to keep quiet, because in that case clearly being noisy is the norm there, and you should adjust. However, if only one person is noisy, and everyone else is quiet, then even in the absence of a rule, I would ask that person to be quiet and follow the social norms.

[realmayo]

Ok fair enough, if you intended "lots of people" to mean "it's the accepted norm" then I'd agree that it would probably be silly to kick against the pricks, but surely that's simply common sense rather than a "welcome to China" thing? And why get used to it when you can simply move rooms? I wasn't looking to argue (""conveniently"" ), just advising against doing nothing about a situation -- one which has clearly upset the OP, caused him to write a long post, and got him even considering quitting his course.