Altair Posted January 22, 2005 at 12:15 AM Report Share Posted January 22, 2005 at 12:15 AM 请指导 In one of the first tapes I used to study Chinese, they had the phrase 好主意. For some reason I could never figure out, it seemed to be pronounced with the tones hao3 zhu2 yi5, rather than as hao2 zhu3 yi4. Has anyone heard of this phenomenon; and if so, can anyone explain it? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
xuechengfeng Posted January 22, 2005 at 01:05 AM Report Share Posted January 22, 2005 at 01:05 AM I believe I also pronounce it Hao2 zhu3 yi4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cutty Posted January 23, 2005 at 01:18 AM Report Share Posted January 23, 2005 at 01:18 AM 咳,不需要用这个了,直接用COOL!!!就可以了 ... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CBC Posted January 23, 2005 at 02:38 AM Report Share Posted January 23, 2005 at 02:38 AM It should be Hao2 Zhu3 Yi5, but I don't know how to explain it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
39degN Posted January 23, 2005 at 02:53 AM Report Share Posted January 23, 2005 at 02:53 AM nothing special, it's just a 多音字( i dont know the linguistic name, it's just a charactor has more than one pronunciation with different meaning.) it's hao3 zhu2 yi5. or hao3 zhu2 yi4 zhu3 yi4 sounds too foreign to me. unless that's 主义. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
florazheng Posted January 23, 2005 at 05:55 AM Report Share Posted January 23, 2005 at 05:55 AM 北方３９度好．．．前阵子再到这里想起了你．．．以前对的对联．．．有趣． ． Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Altair Posted January 23, 2005 at 01:34 PM Author Report Share Posted January 23, 2005 at 01:34 PM It should be Hao2 Zhu3 Yi5, but I don't know how to explain it. CBC, what do you mean by "should"? Are you saying that this is the best way to pronounce this phrase, or the only "correct" way? 39degN, can you use second tone for the 主 in 主意 no matter where this phrase occurs, or only after 好? In other words, do you use second tone for the 主 in 我有个主意? By the way, two possible technical translations of 多音字 or 破音字 are "homographs" and "polyphonic characters." The 主 in 好主意 did not seem like the other 多音字 I am familiar with, because I had only heard it used in this one phrase. I know of no multi-character word that changes pronunciation according to the phrase it is used in; however, if 主意 can be used with this pronunciation generally, then I guess it is not special at all. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HashiriKata Posted January 23, 2005 at 05:27 PM Report Share Posted January 23, 2005 at 05:27 PM It should be Hao2 Zhu3 Yi5, but I don't know how to explain it. 主意 is normally pronounced as zhu3 yi5. When a 3rd tone precedes it, the preceding 3rd tone changes into the 2nd tone. Therefore, 好主意 is pronounced as Hao2 Zhu3 Yi5, just as you said. Easy, isn't it? Ok, although I can explain it, don't assume that I can speak Chinese! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
39degN Posted January 24, 2005 at 02:47 AM Report Share Posted January 24, 2005 at 02:47 AM flora, 好久不见了,你还好吧! 是啊, 有时间继续对! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
39degN Posted January 24, 2005 at 02:56 AM Report Share Posted January 24, 2005 at 02:56 AM Altair wrote: 39degN, can you use second tone for the 主 in 主意 no matter where this phrase occurs, or only after 好? In other words, do you use second tone for the 主 in 我有个主意? yes, you can say that again. i use the word this way everywhere, and i've never heard of anybody else says zhu3 yi4, the third tone. HashiriKata worte: When a 3rd tone precedes it, the preceding 3rd tone changes into the 2nd tone. Therefore, 好主意 is pronounced as Hao2 Zhu3 Yi5, just as you said. Easy, isn't it? that's another rule, i.e. when a two-character-word combined by two third tone characters, the first character USUALLY pronounced second tone in SENTENCE, but this is not the case. 主意 just pronunced as zhu2 yi4 everywhere. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
39degN Posted January 24, 2005 at 03:04 AM Report Share Posted January 24, 2005 at 03:04 AM By the way, two possible technical translations of 多音字 or 破音字 are "homographs" and "polyphonic characters." The 主 in 好主意 did not seem like the other 多音字 I am familiar with, because I had only heard it used in this one phrase. I know of no multi-character word that changes pronunciation according to the phrase it is used in; however, if 主意 can be used with this pronunciation generally, then I guess it is not special at all. yeah, the translatino could be that! i didnt realise the pronunciation is different before either. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
trevelyan Posted January 24, 2005 at 03:57 AM Report Share Posted January 24, 2005 at 03:57 AM #$%*&% inconsistent tonal language! Just checked this with a native speaker. She claimed it should be zhu2yi4, and that maybe you should naturally turn the last tone into the fifth when speaking. Go figure, right? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
39degN Posted January 24, 2005 at 05:21 AM Report Share Posted January 24, 2005 at 05:21 AM yeah, that's it! and i speak northern mandarin all my life. (of coz not according to standard of CCTV hosts) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
xiaoxiajenny Posted January 24, 2005 at 02:29 PM Report Share Posted January 24, 2005 at 02:29 PM We always say Hao3 Zhu2 Yi4/5 It is no necessary to emphasize Zhu3!! If you say Hao3 Zhu3 Yi4 people would suspect that if you come from countryside or you speak with a strong accent. 我有个好hao3主zhu2意yi4/5 sounds naturally and I think this is what Pekinger say. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest IVYtony Posted January 30, 2005 at 07:19 AM Report Share Posted January 30, 2005 at 07:19 AM I believe it should be hao3 zhu2 yi4. 主 is generally pronounced zhu3, but when it is between tones 3 and 4, its tones changes. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
in_lab Posted January 31, 2005 at 04:33 AM Report Share Posted January 31, 2005 at 04:33 AM So, this isn't the only case like this, IVYtony? Can you think of any more examples? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest IVYtony Posted January 31, 2005 at 06:49 AM Report Share Posted January 31, 2005 at 06:49 AM another example: 我不是 小明。 pay attention to first three characters pronuncation. normally, the first three words are pronounced Wo3 Bu4 Shi4 however, in this case (bu4 is between tone 3 and 4, so its pronunciation also changes, just as 主 zhu3-->2 changes as I said in last posting) OK, let's go back to the sentence 我不是 小明。Correct pronunciation should be Wo3 bu2 Shi4 Xiao3 ming2 Also, there're some other rare examples that do not follow this rule I said above. , hmmm, you can also access my web for more information. see my signature Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
skylee Posted January 31, 2005 at 09:36 AM Report Share Posted January 31, 2005 at 09:36 AM I think the tone change has little to do with the 3rd tone before 不, no? I think the rule is that when 不 is placed before a 4th tone (instead of between a 3rd tone and a 4th tone), it changes to 2nd tone. Is this not right? How do you pronounce 他不是? Is it "ta1 bu2 shi4" or "ta1 bu4 shi4"? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HashiriKata Posted January 31, 2005 at 09:47 AM Report Share Posted January 31, 2005 at 09:47 AM How do you pronounce 他不是? Is it "ta1 bu2 shi4" or "ta1 bu4 shi4"? It should be "ta1 bu2 shi4". I think IVYtony may have mixed up two different things together. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest IVYtony Posted February 1, 2005 at 01:52 AM Report Share Posted February 1, 2005 at 01:52 AM maybe I was wrong. native speakers are not that critical to their pronunciation. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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