New Members peterbosman1 Posted March 29, 2012 at 04:02 AM New Members Report Share Posted March 29, 2012 at 04:02 AM Hello Everyone, My name is Peter and I would like to know in what way a good chinese lesson is different from a normal chinese lesson. Because there are so many different schools around here, I was wondering if someone could give me some advice on this. I am planning to take some free lessons, but what is important during a lesson? Is there someone who had this problem before? If yes, where do/did you take classes? And why? Thank you! Peter Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
yialanliu Posted March 30, 2012 at 01:36 AM Report Share Posted March 30, 2012 at 01:36 AM For me a good lesson is a lesson where I personally felt that I learned a lot. A good lesson to me, may not be a good lesson for you. I'd just use your guts to see if you like this teacher. Maybe take a few free lessons or something from different school and just choose what you like the best. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
roddy Posted March 30, 2012 at 08:47 AM Report Share Posted March 30, 2012 at 08:47 AM Off the top of my head, look for: Planning. They shouldn't be making lessons up as they go along (an experienced teacher can do this, but you won't be able to tell) Interaction: There needs to be a lot of back-and-forth between teachers and students, and between students Clear outcomes: Both teacher and students should know what's being studied. Anything that looks like 'having a chat' or day after day of vague 'conversation practice' is dubious. Variety of activities: You need to be doing different things to keep energy and interest up. 10 min vocab review, 15 minute listening exercise, 10 min teaching of a grammar point, 15 minute speaking activity, 5 minutes recap and error review - 55 minute class. Corrections: You need to be getting pulled up on errors - and they need to be explained, not just corrected. Student-focus: Anything the students can do, they should do. If one student makes an error, they should be asked to correct it. If they can't it should be thrown open to other students, if they can't, then and only then, the teacher corrects it. If you're revising some vocab, have the students brainstorm it ('Four teams, A, B, C, D, team that remembers the most of the travel vocab we did last week wins. Five minutes, GO!) rather than just write it up on the board for them. There's a ton of other stuff. 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
yialanliu Posted March 30, 2012 at 09:06 AM Report Share Posted March 30, 2012 at 09:06 AM I'd take the activities with a grain of salt. There';s a variety of ways to learn and some may benefit but others will not. That's why I say at the end of the class, do you feel you got a lot out of it? The method Roddy mentioned is very Western and works for some, but I personally think variety doesn't help me. That's why I say, it's different for each person. Feel free to disagree, but I wouldn't have someone tell you what's the best method, only you know what's best for yourself. Going to different schools is definitely something that can help you find it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
roddy Posted March 30, 2012 at 10:12 AM Report Share Posted March 30, 2012 at 10:12 AM Where are you actually living, Peter? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
feng Posted March 31, 2012 at 03:38 AM Report Share Posted March 31, 2012 at 03:38 AM A good lesson is one where you leave the class being able to read/write listen/speak more words than when you started the class. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
New Members peterbosman1 Posted April 9, 2012 at 03:42 AM Author New Members Report Share Posted April 9, 2012 at 03:42 AM Thanks for the reactions so far. Im currently living in Beijing but I might move to Tianjin in one or two months. Any specific advice on Beijing/Tianjin? I want to focus on daily conversational Chinese, to make life in China somewhat easier. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
roddy Posted April 10, 2012 at 02:09 PM Report Share Posted April 10, 2012 at 02:09 PM Figure out where you're going to be studying, think about budget and hours per week and so on, have a bit of a search, then come back with any unanswered questions. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Elizabeth_rb Posted April 18, 2012 at 05:01 PM Report Share Posted April 18, 2012 at 05:01 PM I'd agree that any class where I felt I'd really learned something would score highly with me. It should also give me plenty of chance to speak and not just listen to the teacher droning on, but still be under their control. There should be a decent element of enjoyment as well. If you have a chance of free lessons, then you should be able to try out a few first. If you end up having to pay, I think I'd ask if you can sit in on a class before you decide to sign up. If it feels comfy and useful, then go for it. Have fun! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
roddy Posted April 19, 2012 at 11:25 AM Report Share Posted April 19, 2012 at 11:25 AM For me a good lesson is a lesson where I personally felt that I learned a lot. A good lesson is one where you leave the class being able to read/write listen/speak more words than when you started the class. I'd agree that any class where I felt I'd really learned something would score highly with me. Unfortunately there are shoddy teachers all over the place making students feel like they're making more progress than they actually are. If you're an experienced language learner, maybe, but I wouldn't trust a novice to sit in a classroom for an hour and be able to evaluate the teacher and the lesson on the basis of a subjective 'did I learn a lot?' feeling. How do they know how much they're learning? 'I learned 50 words' is no use if none of them are going to be revised; 'I spoke a lot' is little use if your mistakes didn't get corrected, 'I now understand that grammar point' is not as good as being able to apply it on the fly. Etc. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
yialanliu Posted April 22, 2012 at 02:10 AM Report Share Posted April 22, 2012 at 02:10 AM Great, according to Roddy I must be too stupid to know what a good teacher is. Sounds like a load of crap to me. I think everyone knows what a good teacher is. If you learned a lot you know it. It doesn't matter if you think a teacher is bad then he/she must be bad for everyone. Likewise, just because YOU think he/she is a good teacher, that everyone must agrees. The reason you think they are a bad teacher might be the EXACT reason someone else loves the teacher. And you most likely love a teacher due to how much you learned when it comes in a situation that grades don't matter. Everyone is different and I don't think you have the right to say people can't judge subjectively. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Flying Pigeon Posted April 22, 2012 at 07:10 AM Report Share Posted April 22, 2012 at 07:10 AM yialanliu eloquently wrote: "I'd just use your guts to see if you like the teacher." This is a major no-no. You shouldn't use your guts in the classroom. It's disrespectful to the teacher and unsanitary. That's what bathroom breaks are for. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
xiaotao Posted April 22, 2012 at 08:08 AM Report Share Posted April 22, 2012 at 08:08 AM My first Chinese teacher had a wealth of knowledge in Chinese culture. She had an interesting background and shared a great deal in class. Her handwriting was perfect and she was very good at correcting pronounciation. Class was interesting and fun. She really had a sense of humor. I always looked forward to going. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
imron Posted April 22, 2012 at 09:50 AM Report Share Posted April 22, 2012 at 09:50 AM @yialanliu, I think you missed the point of Roddy's post entirely. He's just saying that "I learnt a lot" is a very subjective measure that means different things to different people and is also difficult to quantify. If you feel that you "learnt a lot" or "didn't learn much" from one teacher, it might be worth drilling down a bit further to understand why that was the case. There will certainly be reasons behind why someone feels that way about a teacher/lesson, and some of those reasons were probably listed in post #3, and there are sure to be many other possible factors as well. All Roddy is saying is that in a discussion about what makes a good lesson/teacher, quantifiable attributes allow for much more objective conclusions to be reached. It also allows people who disagree on what they want in a teacher and a lesson to compare such attributes and decide what is important to them, something that just saying "I learnt a lot" doesn't really allow for. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
roddy Posted April 22, 2012 at 10:35 AM Report Share Posted April 22, 2012 at 10:35 AM Way back when (2005 maybe?) I took some one to one lessons with a private teacher in Beijing. At 100 yuan an hour (in 2005 yuan, note) he wasn't cheap but he had an impressive CV, I liked the lessons and for a few weeks I was telling people how pleased I was to have finally found a competent teacher and dismissing doubts about the cost. Then I shut up about it and stopped going, as I realized that there wasn't actually any progress happening. I ran into a couple of other people who'd worked with the same guy over the next year or so and they'd had similar experiences. So I guess I was too stupid to know what a good teacher was. Anyone who wants to rely on an instinctual 'that was good' is welcome to do so. But considering the investment in time and money involved in any long term study, I think a little consideration of the mechanics of the lesson will pay off. As Imron has, as always, so eloquently pointed out, that doesn't mean a one size fits all approach. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
yialanliu Posted April 22, 2012 at 12:04 PM Report Share Posted April 22, 2012 at 12:04 PM So I guess I was too stupid to know what a good teacher was. Yea, you were too stupid doesn't mean everyone is stupid and that our instincts are always wrong. The mechanics of the lesson is for what purpose? The best method is different for each student. That's all I am saying here. @Imron, that's not what Roddy said. He's telling you what to look for which is not correct at all. If he only said the problem areas could be planning, activities, and others I would completely agree. But rather he's giving guidelines which are so arbitrary it's incorrect to assume that they are required or even necessary. Maybe you found someone who lacked the 10 minute vocab review. Does that suddenly mean it's the end of the world and you should find someone else? So rather than tell people to look for certain things and assume if it meets these requirements then it will work for you, it'd be much better to just take a step back and ask yourself and trust yourself. Use guidelines in the does he plan enough for you. Which is a question that you have to trust your instincts to prove or disprove. Not okay he did this for 15 minutes that must mean he's a great teacher. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post imron Posted April 22, 2012 at 09:12 PM Popular Post Report Share Posted April 22, 2012 at 09:12 PM But rather he's giving guidelines which are so arbitrary it's incorrect to assume that they are required or even necessary I'm curious as to which of the following you believe to be arbitrary with regards to a lesson: Planning Interaction Clear outcomes Variety of activities Corrections Student-focus They all seem quite reasonable and relevant things to me. Sure, if you had a lesson that didn't incorporate one or two of these items it might not be a problem, but each of these are things that can add to the overall quality of a class. In fact, I would wager that for most people, if you had a lesson that had all of the above characteristics, you'd probably come away thinking "I learnt a lot". All roddy is saying is try to figure out the "why" behind that gut feeling. At least that's how I read and understood his comments. Maybe you found someone who lacked the 10 minute vocab review. Does that suddenly mean it's the end of the world and you should find someone else? Well, I guess we must be reading things differently, because I saw that as Roddy just providing an example of how it's possible to have a variety of activities in a single class, rather than him saying you must structure a class exactly this way. There are plenty of other ways to structure a class to have a variety of activities, and it's the "variety of activities" that is important, not necessarily the actual breakdown of what those activities are. I know for me at least, if an hour long class consisted solely of a single activity, I'd probably get quite bored/tired of it by the end. 5 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
yialanliu Posted April 23, 2012 at 01:29 AM Report Share Posted April 23, 2012 at 01:29 AM Planning Interaction Clear outcomes Variety of activities Corrections Student-focus I agree that's correct as stated by: If he only said the problem areas could be planning, activities, and others I would completely agree. Here's what I disagreed with: But rather he's giving guidelines which are so arbitrary it's incorrect to assume that they are required or even necessary. Maybe you found someone who lacked the 10 minute vocab review. Does that suddenly mean it's the end of the world and you should find someone else? Once again, I just liked to note that at the end of the day, it's still based on instinct. Even with all of the above guidelines, you make the decision on instinct. Like Roddy said, he left after a few lessons. Did he leave because he performed poorly on tests? Or rather on his newer instinct that maybe it's not that great. Imron, ask yourself this, when you take lessons, do you not rely on instincts? Or rather you wait until tests? And even with a test, how much of an improvement you are looking for is also based on instincts. Is 10% enough or not enough for you? For one person it is definitely enough, for another it isn't. So how is it that guts/instincts are wrong when that's the way most people judge a lesson, even people who have studied for many years. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
realmayo Posted April 23, 2012 at 07:37 AM Report Share Posted April 23, 2012 at 07:37 AM So how is it that guts/instincts are wrong http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thinking,_Fast_and_Slow Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
yialanliu Posted April 23, 2012 at 11:16 AM Report Share Posted April 23, 2012 at 11:16 AM Doesn't answer the question Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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