Taiwan Visa Loophole

[Takeshi]

(This is a joke topic.)

As far as I know, getting Chinese visas is quite a hassle, and the biggest thing is, no matter how long you stay in China it is nearly impossible to get some sort of permanent residency or citizenship. (Does anyone have the D visa?)

I had always thought about this but, the visa solution for people who want to settle permanently in China is to go to Taiwan first, naturalize there, get the 台胞证 and use that to be able to go to the mainland and be treated basically as a Chinese Citizen and be able to work and live indefinitely. (From what it seems, PRC accepts naturalized ROC citizens through the scheme too.) Heck, if you cared, technically you could even register your 户口 in the mainland and become a full PRC citizen, though I'm not sure if that would practically work out.

Discuss.

[yialanliu]

Your logic is flawed.

What's the point of discussing a joke topic?

[skylee]

I think perhaps it is easier to do it by staying in HK. There are some HK westerners who have done it.

I have heard that men below 40 who get the Taiwan citizenship (or whatever status it is called) cannot escape military service (not sure how true this is, but this was a reason I heard of why a man did not marry a Taiwan woman until he had turned 40).

[ThatBlokeDave]

I have heard that men below 40 who get the Taiwan citizenship (or whatever status it is called) cannot escape military service

God, I hope that is not true! I am getting married next month to a Taiwanese lady and currently live / work in the country.

On a slightly connected note, I actually have a friend here who is Taiwanese and lives / works here that does the opposite of a visa run every couple of months to escape military service.

Other guys at my office need their boss to write to the military on a regular basis and explain why the job they are doing is important for the security of the country and therefore should not be forced to do military service. I heard that if they do this for long enough the total amount of time they need to serve is reduced.

[Takeshi]

Why is my logic flawed? There /are people/ who have done this and it is very much possible. Or so they say at Forumosa; a Taiwan forum. The only thing about it that is a joke topic is the idea that there would be someone who wants to settle in the mainland going to Taiwan and naturalizing there first. (And yes, you'd have to deal with military service if you are a young male.)

Yes, I had thought about HK too, but I'm not sure if it would work out. It is a normal process for long time foreigners to get "HK residency", but it is an extremely difficult process to get "PRC Citizenship" or be a "Chinese National". (I have heard of some cases of long time Indians etc who had got it during the handover because Britain wouldn't give them citizenship and they'd otherwise be stateless, but I think that's about it.)

As far as I understand HK Nationality Law, there is no such thing as "HK Citizenship" despite what many people believe. The Chinese population of HK are "PRC Citizens" and "HK permanent residents" which gives them a sort of different status in China and allows them to have the SAR passport. Foreigners can easily become "HK permanent residents" and "HK permanent residents" have most of the rights in HK that citizens could expect to have in most other countries (right to work, vote, public health etc), with the only exceptions of the SAR passport (an inferior "travel document" is available though) and various Mainland travel documents that are only available to "PRC Citizens" or "Chinese Nationals".

So as far as I understand I don't think it would work through HK unless there are some provisions to help non-"PRC Citizen" but "HK permanent resident" people live and work in the mainland.

[skylee]

Two real and very well known cases (perhaps they are the only cases, not sure) are Mike Rowse and Allan Zeman.

http://english.people.com.cn/english/200110/05/eng20011005_81627.html

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BTt8Pggbry0

[yialanliu]

Your logic is flawed because you can't suddenly become a Taiwanese citizen overnight. The time required spent in Taiwan is prohibitive to people who want mainland citizenship. Very few think/plan that far in advance and stay the length of time required for mainland citizenship.

Next, how do you register a hukou and become a citizen? Do you even know how to get a hukou?

Your permit is a permit, not a hukou. You can't register a permit to make it turn into a hukou. And then magically make the hukou turn into citizenship.

People who are foreigners(non Chinese, foreign born) who are chinese (mainland) citizens:

Sidney Shapiro

Sidney Rittenberg

Israel Epstein

Anyways, not impossible, and those individuals are quite special and talented. But it has happened.

[Takeshi]

Skylee: I guess there are always special cases. I don't know the details about the process to become a Chinese national in HK though.

yialanliu: Yes, I know. That's the joke part of the topic. Yes, I will admit I was making stuff up about the registering 户口 thing. (Though the 台胞证 already lets you live and work etc.) I don't know the details about changing your 户口, but I'm sure it's technically possible.

From my understanding, PRC believes all ROC citizens to be PRC citizens, but their status as a "resident in Taiwan" (ie: their 台湾户口) is what makes their status in the mainland different (similar to HK people). Since they are PRC citizens, they can change their residence, ie, 户口 from their abode in Taiwan to a new abode. The process would probably be about as confusing/more confusing than people in China who want to change their 户口. Once their 户口 is changed from their Taiwan abode to their new abode in the mainland they are a full Mainland citizen like any other.

I did point out in my first post that there is probably some step in the process that would make it difficult for a naturalized ROC citizen to change his 户口, but either way, the plan works up until the 台胞证 part fine.

[xiaoxiaocao]

I think perhaps it is easier to do it by staying in HK. There are some HK westerners who have done it.

We've had a couple of students that had some kind of HK Citizen/id card (I'll check the actual name later). They didn't even have to bring their passport with them when they entered the Mainland, very nice.

[yialanliu]

Yes, I will admit I was making stuff up about the registering 户口 thing. (Though the 台胞证 already lets you live and work etc.) I don't know the details about changing your 户口, but I'm sure it's technically possible.

That's the real reason your logic is flawed. Changing your hukou is not the same as getting one in the first place. That's the problem you'll run into.

Next, you're confusing de facto versus de jure policies. Just because legally, PRC thinks ROC is a part of them, you forget one thing. PRC rejects all documents from the ROC government except the tongxinzheng. The "hukou" of ROC is not a valid hukou and defnitely not one you can transfer.

This is a very moot topic because there is no loophole hence why your logic is flawed. The process is not any easier. The fact that your points are grounded on things you made up doesn't mean it's true in the real world. Look up how you get a hukou before throwing it around, then you will realize your mistake.

HK/Macau is very different from Taiwan.

[skylee]

We've had a couple of students that had some kind of HK Citizen/id card (I'll check the actual name later). They didn't even have to bring their passport with them when they entered the Mainland, very nice.

If the document is called 港澳居民來往內地通行證 (aka 回鄉證/卡), then they have Chinese nationality.

[Lu]

I had never thought of this! The hardest part might be leaving Taiwan after spending 5-7 years there, it's such a nice place to live, who will want to leave at that point?

I know one foreigner who took up Taiwanese (ROC) citizenship, he had to give up his American citizenship and serve in the army. But it's nonsense not to marry a Taiwanese for that reason, as you don't get citizenship just by marrying a Taiwanese. (Incidentally, you also don't get a spousal visa automatically. You only get that by coming into the country as your Taiwanese spouse's spouse.)

Is it true that all Taiwanese are considered by the PRC to be PRC citizens? This would be new to me. I've never heard of people born in Taiwan as ROC citizens who then got a PRC passport.

[wedge]

I'll bet serving in the Taiwanese army would be great for my Mandarin...

[jkhsu]

I've never heard of people born in Taiwan as ROC citizens who then got a PRC passport.

You have now.

[Chief123]

Is it true that all Taiwanese are considered by the PRC to be PRC citizens?

I think you'd find many in Taiwan, especially the "old guard" would consider people in the mainland to be ROC citizens. In real life it doesn't work that way, of course, but the PRC believes Taiwan belongs to it and the ROC believes the mainland belongs to it.

[Lu]

Yes yes, ideologically it's One China of course, but that doesn't necessarily get you a passport. Contrary to for example South Korea, which considers all Koreans, including the Northerners, to be South Korean citizens and they can get the South Korean nationality as soon as they set foot on S-K territory to claim it. It doesn't work like that for the PR/RO China.

Jkhsu: Now I read that article I realise I have heard of this guy. I suppose that shows another shortcut: the Jeremy Lin-route, just get so good at your sport (while ethnic Chinese) that they beg you to come to them.

[yialanliu]

That's not new at all but something that happens quite frequently. Very talented people (sports, actors, businessmen) can change citizenship easily especially if you can provide something special to the country. Hence why so many actors are now Hong Kong citizens when originally PRC.

[Marakanka]

Quote

I've never heard of people born in Taiwan as ROC citizens who then got a PRC passport.

You have now.

that guy is supposed to be 52 and joined the HK government in 1972? Thats either nonsense or child labour

[Marakanka]

uuppss..just realised that article was written in 2001 - so it just about works out without being child labour. He obviously couldnt get another job anywhere else in his life...

[yialanliu]

I don't see how working when you're 22 is child labor or anywhere close to it....

I've been working since I was 16 and I could have worked when I was 14 in the US LEGALLY at a supermarket. That's a solid 6 years earlier than him and I believe more people have their first job before 22, not after 22.