Observation selection effects and incorrect Chinese tattoos

[Demonic_Duck]

Judging from the evidence of the Tattoos, Names and Quick Translations forum here, it seems like people with Chinese tattoos that are actually grammatically correct are more or less non-existent.

What I'm wondering is whether what we're witnessing is representative, or whether what we're seeing is really just the result of an observation selection effect. People only post their tattoos in that forum when they have some doubts about the correctness of the tattoo; if they'd already double checked with their Chinese friend before getting the tattoo, they wouldn't bother posting on the forum as they already had a reliable source.

My suspicion is that people with correct Chinese tattoos are still in the minority, but I suspect the situation's not quite as bad as the evidence would suggest... Any thoughts? (Yeah I know this thread is a bit random, but I'm sleep deprived and the thought suddenly struck me.)

[Shelley]

You have hit on my pet peeve here with this topic

I really get worked up when people ask AFTER getting the tattoo.

When I first joined this forum it was one of the first things i noticed and I asked the question why, I got some replies but the one that made the most sense was the one word reply I got which was Alcohol.

This did make sense but still i feel that not all bad chinese tattoos can be for this reason.

What gets me is why people think it will be better in chinese, it dosen't impart any kind of special power or magic.

Also I don't understand why people want a tattoo in a language most of the people around them won't understand especialy when they seem to want to give a message to world with their tattoo.

i wondered if other language forums have a tattoo section and are there bad tattoos in other languages, i understand sanscrict, russian, greek and hebrew are also popular.

I understand your point about the fact that we only hear about the bad ones, and maybe there are lots of correct ones we will never know about, so we can't jugde all chinese tattoos as bad.

I aslo think that we don't see the vast majority of bad tattoos because i don't think people actually care if its right, they just like the look of it and think its cool. Also they may not want to know the truth

I think this is something that will not change, i think that bad chinese tattoos will continue to be done and we will continue to see the afermath of a drunken night out or the belief that all tattoo artists know chinese.

I don't see any way to change it, this disturbs me a bit as I feel there could be some really nice tattoos done in chinese if only people did their homework first, check the meaning and choose a nice font.

I personaly don't want any tattoos in any language, but other people do and I feel sorry for those who end up with a bad chinese tattoo permantly on them.

So thats my little rant on the subject, sorry but this topic really gets me on my soapbox

[anonymoose]

What gets me is why people think it will be better in chinese, it dosen't impart any kind of special power or magic.

Why do people get tattoos at all? Why do people wear rings? Why do people think rings are better when made of gold or platinum, rather than steel or aluminium? It doesn't impart any kind of special power or magic. Why do people wear diamonds and not lumps of coal? After all, they are made of exactly the same material, their only difference being in the three-dimensional arrangement of the atoms.

These things can't be explained by reason. It all boils down to psychology. People do what they think will give them recognition in the eyes of others.

[Demonic_Duck]

i wondered if other language forums have a tattoo section and are there bad tattoos in other languages, i understand sanscrict, russian, greek and hebrew are also popular.

Interesting you mention that. A Chinese girl I know got a tattoo in English which she believed said "I don't care" (which doesn't really seem a great or particularly deep message to get in the first place)... it actually said "I don't sad". Slightly more optimistic message, but unfortunately just plain wrong. Oh dear.

I aslo think that we don't see the vast majority of bad tattoos because i don't think people actually care if its right, they just like the look of it and think its cool. Also they may not want to know the truth

Hmm, maybe you're right... perhaps the observation selection effect goes the other way as well! :o

[imron]

but unfortunately just plain wrong. Oh dear.

I hope she don't sad when you told her

[Shelley]

@anonymoose, I understand the point you are making. Its true this whole tattoo thing is a personal choice thing. it is impossible to quantifiy the reasons why people do it.

I agree with you, but the examples you used can be argued against,

Gold and platinum are generally preferable because they don't tarnish and the choice of a lump of coal or a diamond is fairly obvious because although they are both made of carbon, the arangment of the atoms are different. The diamond is the more attractive in most peoples eyes, and a diamond lasts longer.

Don't get the wrong idea, I am not disagreeing with your point only your examples.

[Demonic_Duck]

I hope she don't sad when you told her

It wasn't her who showed me, my friend (a mutual friend) showed me a picture. I told her it was wrong but not to tell the other girl as it might upset her

[langxia]

afermath of a drunken night out

every serious tattoo artist won't give you a tattoo if you are drunk as it is dangerous.

Well I for myself do have a chengyu tattoed but wouldn't put it up on a forum, why ? because I know I got what I was going for after talking to a lot of chinese friends. Also i got it done in china which is the only place I would get characters tattooed (I wouldn't get any roman alphabet letters in china on the other hand).

What is to be said about tattoos is that you get bad tattoos if you don't do your homework : check out which tattoo artist is best for what you want and check his previous work to see if he really is able to deliver what he promises you.

And usually (there are probably exeptions) you get what you pay for : a good artist will probably be expensive as he will be booked more or be able to work less for more cash.

just to add a little story of some friends who bought a tattoo machine to get some cheap tattoos they do to each other :

one guy wanted to have working class tattooed and the guy doing it forgot to add an r so instead it read Woking class. and no noone of them was a cook.

[陳德聰]

If I could speak to the question here about observation selection effects, I think that is precisely what we have going on here.

I find I don't even take particular notice of other people's tattoos of Chinese characters unless they are weird or wrong, because to me they're just another tattoo. I don't tend to scrutinize tattoos of hearts or skulls with fancy writing or anything like that, so if a Chinese tattoo is not glaring at me in its wrongness it is unlikely that I will really care enough to even remember the tattoo! I see countless one or two character tattoos that are not incorrect (usually things like 火 or 水 or 愛 or 忍) relatively often, maybe once every month or so if I had to estimate, but I notice them probably as often as I notice tattoos of anchors or birds or tribal bands etc.

It's more than just likely that people are coming to forums like this one because someone instilled doubt in their minds after the fact, it's almost certain. What other reason could they really have for double checking on something they were probably super proud of and excited for when they got it? From my short time here though, I noticed that quite a few people come to ask for translations pre-tattoo... And often times they receive less than ideal translations (or at least things I wouldn't really think go well as tattoos)... So it's also possible we are seeing a self-fulfilling prophecy here. Some forum somewhere provides a shoddy translation under the guise of expertise and then that person goes and gets said shoddy tattoo and comes here and says 'Hey I just want to know what my tattoo says!' and we all go omg I can't believe this person didn't check before getting their tattoo!!

With that said, I want to share an anecdote about a guy who married into my extended family and showed up to a summer family reunion barbeque with 棺(木財)佬 --I assumed it should just be read 棺材佬-- on his arm and I almost died . When I asked him what he had wanted his tattoo to say, he told me he had just picked one that looked cool. What was even more ridiculous is that when I went home to see if I could find that character with 木字旁 I found out that this is an outrageously common tattoo that people think means "Fear No Man". In light of that... I kind of think it can be both observation selection effects and also stupidity at the same time if that's possible.