Need Help (US Citizen, L Visa Extension)

[waiguoren]

Background

After completing a semester's study program in Beijing (180 day F visa), I went to HK back in early July to apply for a (mainland) Chinese tourist visa. The idea was to have a temporary visa while I worked to secure employment in SH. To my surprise, I was given only a 15-day L visa instead of the 30-day L that I applied for. (I had wanted to apply for a 90-day visa but was told at the counter that HK never gives 90-day L visas.) The person at the counter politely told me she didn't know why I was only granted 15 days.

Research led me to the idea of L visa extension. According to multiple experienced travelers and visa extension service websites, L visa extension can be done twice per visa and each extension lasts 30 days. 60 days should be enough time to find employment, I thought.

I applied for extension on 26 July 2012 at the 上海市出入境管理局 in 浦東. I filled in 30 days on the application form. The visa officer was very friendly and assured me I would get my 30 days. Multiple friends in the hostel at which I am staying told me they have extended multiple times without issue. There is even a Japanese guy here who has done it 13 times.

I've been rather busy recently and so it was only yesterday, 17 August 2012, that I got a chance to pick up. I was the first one in line when the Bureau opened at 9:00. I paid my ￥940 and picked up my passport without hassle. I thought everything was fine and was ready to leave when my 姐姐 took a look at my new visa. The date in the item labeled "有效期至 (Valid until)" was 11 August 2012. They had only given me 15 days.

I went back to the counter and asked the person who gave me my visa what happened. She spent a few minutes digging in a huge cabinet and came up with a little slip of paper. With reference to that paper, she notified me that the Bureau had originally given me 30 days but later changed to 15 days. I asked why. She said she didn't know and I would have to go to the third floor to find out why.

On the third floor I encountered two characters. One was the guy at the 外國人簽證諮詢台 (Foreign visa consultation desk?). I asked him why they would give me only 15 days if I applied for 30 days. He told me that the Bureau doesn't have to explain its decisions to me or anyone else. I told him that I had overstayed by six days because of this and he promptly pointed me to the office that deals with overstays.

That office was staffed by only one man. He told me they would charge ￥500 per day of overstay and issue a free 強制簽證 (bridge visa?) to allow me to leave the country. He said that if I try to leave the country without it I will be arrested.

I decided to go back downstairs and find the girl who told me my visa had been changed from 30 to 15 days. I found her immediately and she told me she was sorry to say that she had destroyed the record (銷毀了).

I don't have a lot of money and I am not enthusiastic about paying ￥4500 (6 days x ￥500 + three weekend days x ￥500 = ￥4500) . I have read accounts online of a 10-day grace period for overstays.

Questions

1. Has anyone here ever been granted only 15 days on an L Visa extension?

2. Does anyone have experience with this 10-day grace period?

3. Does anyone have any suggestions about how to sort this out?

Help would be greatly appreciated. Cheers.

[abcdefg]

I don't have a solution, but I have a couple comments and a modest suggestion.

1. It sounds as though you are now on a "must leave China" list. At least that's my understanding of the 强制签证/強制簽證 ("compulsory visa.")

2. A visa applicant has no automatic rights of appeal here. Decisions are final unless you have strong inside connections. 关系。

3. I will send you the suggestion via private message. Don't get your hopes up; the suggestion is not that great.

Sorry about your predicament.

[waiguoren]

abcdefg,

Thank you for your reply.

Actually I haven't yet been issued a 強制簽證 because I refused to pay the ￥3000 on Friday. Now that it's Sunday I owe ￥4000. The fine maxes out at ￥5000---this is one of the very few rules that is actually available for the public to read on the official website of the 上海市公安局出入境管理局.

Tentative plan is to go back to the 出入境管理局 and have a heart-to-heart one-on-one with the guy in charge. This was an honest mistake based on my poor understanding of L visa extensions.

[abcdefg]

Very best of luck with that approach and I hope it works out. Please let us know afterwards.

[fanglu]

I don't have any advice, sorry. Really a bad situation. Good luck!

The thing about not wanting to explain decisions doesn't surprise me though. The entire Chinese government is basically designed so no one has to take responsibility for anything.

[waiguoren]

Update:

￥4500 fine cancelled. New visa will give me 10 extra days.

The lone cop (badge # 005286) who staffs the office every day is God and if you don't know how to 拍馬屁 in either Mandarin or Shanghai language you probably won't get off as well as I did. I used Mandarin. I basically told him my life story and professed a deep love for China. Told him I want to settle down here and have no plans to return. I even said I would consider relinquishing my US citizenship in favor of a Chinese one. Based on his expression, I think he nearly crapped his pants with joy.

When I told him I couldn't afford the fine he actually started asking me how much I could pay---"那你可以付多少？500塊怎麼樣" In the end he didn't ask for anything---it's as if his job is too boring so he needs to fck with people's emotions.

Next stop Vietnam. Will collect the requisite documents and come back for a Z visa.

Thanks again to abcdefg.

[waiguoren]

m still in the 出入境管理局 asking questions and will update as I learn more. I think this information could be very useful to travelers.

I just asked a visa officer about extensions for 15-day L visas. Conversation took place in Mandarin.

Me: For how long can a 15-day L visa be extended?

Her: 10 days at most. But we can give you even less.

Me: That's interesting. Last time I extended a 15-day L you gave me a 15-day extension.

Her: Then you can't extend a second time.

Me: Oh! So if you had given me a 10-day extension I could have extended twice, right?

Her: No. Only once.

Me: (Tried to keep my cool and hide the confusion)

Her: What are you trying to do?

Me: I'm just trying to figure out how all this works.

Her: The specifics of the way our system works are not open for the public, OKAY?

Me: (Sensing this was a touchy subject) Right. Thanks!

[abcdefg]

#5 -- That's great! I would like to hire you to represent me if I ever get in a similar situation.

[roddy]

Never heard of a 15 day visa in Hong Kong before - is there anything on your record (lots of F visas from random cities, previous overstays?) that might have looked dubious?

Congratulations on avoiding the fine - to be honest I'm surprised that happened. Wouldn't be surprised if this comes back to bite you in the future though - you may have dodged the fine, but I don't think they'll have removed the overstay from your record, which at the least will mean little hope of lenient treatment if you end up overstaying again.

[waiguoren]

Hi Roddy,

No previous overstays. Only one F visa, which I mentioned in the original post. Was also my first time applying in HK---all previous visas were applied for in US. No criminal record or anything.

The overstay has been removed from my record. The ass-kissing paid off royally.

EDIT:

I guess I can't be sure the overstay has been totally removed---after all the 公安局's records are not open to the public. The cop assured me that future China visa applications won't be affected.

[roddy]

Sounds like you're in the clear then. That 15-day visa in HK is really weird, never heard of that before. Anyone else?

[abcdefg]

That 15-day visa in HK is really weird, never heard of that before.

"The times, they are a changing."

[waiguoren]

roddy,

Check this out:

http://www.thebeijinger.com/forum/2012/05/25/10-day-visa-for-Americans-in-Hong-Kong-Thats-all

I've seen similar reports on comparable sites.