HSK has grammar?

[Valujira]

I am new to this forum, though I learn Chinese a few monthes, I would like to ask something.

I have learned for the first HSK test and did it well, just 2 wrong answers, I mean I did it online, I found a website that gives you PDF of the tests and also the MP3 speaking part of it, so I actually learn with Anki all the words I need and then do the tests on my PC and check the answers at end of the exam.

Now comes the problem, Today I fellt ready to take the HSK 2 level test, so I start do it and I found it was hard to me to understand what they say at the MP3 listening part of the test, and the next part of the exam is the reading part, I did not understand most sentences, for example:

妹妹现在上班了， 每天都很忙，所以玩儿的时间很少。

I understand the first part:

The young sister is now start working, every day all are very busy, therfore (wanr? what does it mean?) of time very little (small).

I don't understand few things, why there is "dou1-all" in 每天都很忙 - what it suppose to do there? does this part means "all are very busy"?

And now comes the question, the reasn I opened this thread, 玩儿 is a word I can't understand, I mean the first sign wan2 means a toy, and the second one is -er adding, in the HSK level 2 word list (which you need to learn in order to pass a test) , this word combination IS NOT EXIST IN THE WORD LIST FOR THIS EXAM!

My question is why it's not there?

I've also encountered the word 觉 (jue2) alone, In the word list the only word that this character is in it is 觉得 jue2de5 - to feel, to think.

Why this word is appears alone in this HSK 2 level if in the word list this word alone doesn't appear?

Another very impotant quesion I also need to ask, to HSK tests, you need to learn also Chinese grammar?

Because I don't learn grammar, I prepare for tests in this way:

1. First I learn the word list for the test I want (for example, HSK 2) with Anki, the first test requires 150 words, second 300 etc.

2.Doing the test in my Laptop and check the answers.

Shall I learn also Chinese grammar for this test? If so, from where, and tell me what grammar is required for each test, for example if the past simple is required for HSK 1 or for HSK 4 etc.

I added the PDF test so you can check it yourself. HSK - Level B.pdf

P.S: I use the deck in Anki called "New HSK All Levels"

[edelweis]

Hi Valujira,

first why the mock test contains words which are not in the vocabulary list.

One explanation is that in normal life, you will always encounter words that you do not already know, that's why tests will also contain a few words that you have not already learnt. It tests your ability to make deductions. Obviously, if you learn from a textbook, you will learn many words which are not in the official HSK vocabulary list, so perhaps that could help with the test. For instance 玩儿 is a very common variant of 玩 and it is used in many textbooks.

Another explanation is that the mock tests in those test explanation PDF files were not prepared very carefully. For level 3 it contains many words which are not in the official list. But the real test will not contain that many unknown words, only a few in my experience.

Second, about grammar:

the PDF file you added does contain some grammar prerequisites starting page 42. You should learn the use of the words, expressions and grammatical structures in that section. However it is not a manual or a textbook, so this PDF itself does not explain everything very well.

For instance it does not explain that 每... is often followed with 都, it does not explain that when you have several propositions with the same subject you can omit the subject and so on.

So, yes, you need to learn some grammar, you should learn from a real textbook or class, not just word lists.

妹妹现在上班了， 每天都很忙，所以玩儿的时间很少。

my little sister is at work now, (she) is very busy everyday, so (she has) very little time to play.

(literally: (her) time of playing is very little)

hope this helps.

[li3wei1]

I don't believe there is an explicit grammar section to the HSK, but the Chinese language certainly has grammar, so to learn Chinese, you'll have to learn the grammar. You've done very well to get that far on nothing but vocabulary memorisation. However, you will find that word order is not necessarily the same in Chinese as it is for your native language, and that many times there is no word-for-word equivalency. In the examples you give above, 都 refers back to 每天, just to reinforce the meaning of 'every day', and 玩儿的时间 means 'time to play' or 'free time'. The 儿 appears after quite a few words, sometimes it changes the meaning slightly, sometimes it's just a regional preference.

[OneEye]

玩 is a verb in this case, meaning "to have fun" or "to play". There is no "past simple" in Chinese, because time is not expressed using tense, but aspect. I'm not sure how you expect to learn a language without learning grammar and by just memorizing the meanings of some words, but it's not going to happen. You should take a look at this website:

http://resources.allsetlearning.com/chinese/grammar/

[Valujira]

Ok, I'll take a look at this website.

So I think Í'll learn grammar also and learn with some books.

Thank you all. sincerly.

[renzhe]

HSK is meant to be a comprehensive test of language ability, testing your ability to use the language in general. Since Chinese (like all languages) has grammar, you will need to be good at grammar to do well on the HSK. The vocabulary lists are just a guideline to estimate which words you should know, it's not meant to be everything that is tested in the HSK tests.

In the easiest HSK tests, there are very few grammar-specific questions, but more advanced levels have quite a bit of it -- you are asked to complete sentences using correct aspect particles, pick correct sentences and eliminate ones with grammar errors, etc.

Like others, I recommend following a good textbook in order to develop a balanced set of language skills. Learning vocabulary with Anki is still a good idea and you should continue it, but don't make memorising lots of words your focus -- listening, reading, grammar and speaking are all important too.

[Valujira]

Can you reccomend me a good grammar book?

[renzhe]

Yip and Rimmington: http://www.amazon.co.uk/Chinese-Comprehensive-Grammar-Grammars/dp/0415150329/ref=pd_sim_b_4/278-8121317-1112466

Ross and Ma: http://www.amazon.co.uk/Modern-Mandarin-Chinese-Grammar-Practical/dp/0415700108/ref=pd_sim_b_1/278-8121317-1112466

These are highly praised comprehensive books, but same authors also have beginner grammar books with workbooks and exercises, just look at amazon suggestions below.

But even a standard textbook, like New Practical Chinese Reader or Integrated Chinese will introduce most of the grammar you need, and a lot of other useful stuff.

[Valujira]

Ok, I appreciate that a lot, thanks.

[Valujira]

One more question, do you suggest me to first finish the grammar book and then test on HSK tests?

[renzhe]

No, in my experience, a steady process in which you improve on all required skills in parallel tends to give best results. Don't try to "finish" learning a certain aspect of Chinese first before doing anything else. Any single aspect of Chinese is too overwhelming on its own. Vocabulary, pronunciation, grammar, writing...

You don't need to know all of Chinese grammar (it's a HUUUUUUGE thing) to pass HSK2. You also don't need 30,000 words or 5,000 characters. Just develop these things together, so simple grammar points (like 每...都 or 得) are learned with simple words (完儿), and more complex grammar and more complex words come later.

My recommendation would be to get your hands on a decent textbook (like NPCR), which will introduce important grammatical concepts to you in a natural progression, together with the work on vocabulary, writing/reading, and other skills. If you wish, you can go through it fast, but IMHO it's important to develop these skills together, as they complement and help each other.

Grammar books I mentioned make for really good reference and study tool too.

[stoney]

Valujira says, "I found a website that gives you PDF of the tests and also the MP3 speaking part of it,"

Could you share the link please?

[edelweis]

http://www.chinesetesting.cn/godownload.do

In the 考试大纲类 section:

新HSK（一级）考试大纲下载 = the explanation (in Chinese) for HSK1, there is one mock test inside

听力音频文件 = the audio file for the mock test.

There is one such explanation and sound file for each level of the new HSK.

In the 样卷类 section:

HSK一级真题与答案下载(第一套) = the first additional mock test for level 1

听力音频文 = the audio file for the mock test.

(there are several additional mock tests for each level of the new HSK.)

[Valujira]

Yes this is the site, good one.