Ludens Posted January 6, 2013 at 02:31 PM Report Share Posted January 6, 2013 at 02:31 PM Last week I signed a 1 year contract to rent a room in Beijing. I've signed the contract with an agency （中介）, who rents the apartment from the original owner. Long story short, they aren't going to give me the documents I need to register at the local police station, and the landlord isn't coming with me either to get the form of temporary residence. All the other tenants in my apartment are Chinese, who apparently don't have to register, so the landlord doesn't pay the tax (s)he should pay when renting out rooms. Basically, I don't know what to do next. I've thought about staying in a hotel to register, but then I'd be 'illegal' after obtaining the form of temporary residence and checking out. What kind of problems could/will I face when going this route? What are the alternatives? How do other foreigners living in Beijing deal with this problem? Any suggestions? I only have the contract I signed with the agency, this isn't enough to register I assume? I'm getting quite stressed, as my university semester is starting soon, for which I need this form of temporary residence to get me a long-term visa/residence permit. My Chinese friends say all apartments are like this, landlords never pay their tax so will never want to help me register. Is this true? My housing budget is very small, I don't have enough money to live on campus (and wouldn't want to anyway) and definitely don't have enough money to rent one of those rooms I see on sites as thebeijinger, which I assume come with foreigner-friendly landlords. Any help would be very much appreciated! PS: I've read a few similar threads, but they are very old, and I suppose these situations change constantly. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
anonymoose Posted January 6, 2013 at 02:57 PM Report Share Posted January 6, 2013 at 02:57 PM I might be wrong, but as far as I recall, you only need the contract to get the temporary residence certificate. I don't think staying in a hotel would work, because you don't get a certificate for that, and you need the certificate to apply for a residency permit. My suggestion would be to take your contract (and passport) to your local PSB and try to register. If they give you the certificate, then no problem. If not, then explain the situation, and see what they suggest. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
roddy Posted January 6, 2013 at 05:53 PM Report Share Posted January 6, 2013 at 05:53 PM What the local police station wants to give you the form depends on the local police station. Zhwj used to actually have to take his landlord, if I remember correctly. I used to need the contract and I think a copy of the landlord's ID (although I used to just dump every document I had on their desk, so they might not have actually asked for it) When you say they won't give you the documents - which documents, and who has said you need them? You can get a temp residence form from hotels, although ask before you check in - they may have no idea what you're talking about. The contract alone might actually be enough, it really does depend on how they do things locally. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AucklandLove Posted January 7, 2013 at 12:00 AM Report Share Posted January 7, 2013 at 12:00 AM I heard Chinese people also need to register with the police. Is there a system for Chinese citizens as well? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fanglu Posted January 7, 2013 at 12:22 AM Report Share Posted January 7, 2013 at 12:22 AM If you can't register with the contract, you could try talking to the local 居委会. I'm sure they'd be quite interested in a landlord in their area not paying the proper taxes, and I have a vague memory that someone on here has gone down ghat route successfully before. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
icebear Posted January 7, 2013 at 01:11 AM Report Share Posted January 7, 2013 at 01:11 AM Tell the agent that you are liable for a 500 RMB/day fine that you don't register after the first 48 hours. Then tell them they/the landlord are liable for a fine of equal value. This worked beautifully the last time I had a resistant landlord agent. Also, it's quite clear that most in Beijing do not pay taxes on rentals, regardless of registrations, as most are reluctant to give a fapiao for this reason (even if they can get you registered). My impression is that they are worried about the PSB reporting the rental to another authority responsible for taxes, which maybe is possible but unlikely. I've always needed the contract and a photocopy of the landlord's (title holder) ID. I've heard some PSBs require a copy of the actual title also, but haven't seen that yet. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cat Jones Posted January 7, 2013 at 01:32 AM Report Share Posted January 7, 2013 at 01:32 AM Ask your agent if they can register on your behalf. Mine did this for me the last time. I didn't even have to set foot in the police station. The documentation required and the need for your landlord to be present is different depending on the police station. Some are very strict (Wudaokou) if there are a great deal of foreigners in the area, and others are far more relaxed. Try to register with just your contract, or see if the agency can register on your behalf. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChTTay Posted January 7, 2013 at 02:37 AM Report Share Posted January 7, 2013 at 02:37 AM "Some are very strict (Wudaokou) if there are a great deal of foreigners in the area, and others are far more relaxed." We only needed passport and the original contract when we registered in Wudaokou. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cat Jones Posted January 7, 2013 at 02:52 AM Report Share Posted January 7, 2013 at 02:52 AM We only needed passport and the original contract when we registered in Wudaokou Recently? Last year I was made to take my landlord with me, even though I had the contract and a copy of her ID card. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ludens Posted January 7, 2013 at 05:18 AM Author Report Share Posted January 7, 2013 at 05:18 AM Thanks for the fast replies everyone, any more thoughts are more than welcome. When you say they won't give you the documents - which documents, and who has said you need them? The info my university gave me says: "To apply for the registration form, your landlord needs to present the host's residence booklet, the certificate of title to house property, the lease and ID card to the policeman and you need to present your passport". I only have the contract and my passport. If they give you the certificate, then no problem. If not, then explain the situation, and see what they suggest. When discussing this with the Chinese friend who helped me get this room she strongly discouraged me to ever tell the truth, saying it will definitely get me into trouble. I don't understand how, as I think it's clear it's the landlord and agency breaking the law here, not me, but she felt very strong about this. She's afraid the agency will break the contract, kick me out of my room and keep my money. Although I'm not sure how big the chances are of this happening to a foreigner, it does sound scary. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gato Posted January 7, 2013 at 05:26 AM Report Share Posted January 7, 2013 at 05:26 AM The info my university gave me says: "To apply for the registration form, your landlord needs to present the host's residence booklet, the certificate of title to house property, the lease and ID card to the policeman and you need to present your passport". I only have the contract and my passport. I've signed the contract with an agency （中介）, who rents the apartment from the original owner. Long story short, they aren't going to give me the documents I need to register at the local police station, and the landlord isn't coming with me either to get the form of temporary residence. Go to the neighborhood police station where you are supposed to register and ask them what documents are required. Bring your Chinese friend with you to make sure you understand what they tell you. If you need to have a direct contract with the landlord and the supporting documents from the landlord, then you'll need your agent's help to get those documents from the landlord. The agent may be willing to help for a fee. This might be your best option now since you've already rented the place and paid the agent. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
icebear Posted January 7, 2013 at 06:08 AM Report Share Posted January 7, 2013 at 06:08 AM She's afraid the agency will break the contract, kick me out of my room and keep my money. Although I'm not sure how big the chances are of this happening to a foreigner, it does sound scary. This is possible/likely. Again, I suggest you hint to the agent that they will be equally liable for the fine of 500/day that you are unregistered. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChTTay Posted January 7, 2013 at 07:12 AM Report Share Posted January 7, 2013 at 07:12 AM "Recently? Last year I was made to take my landlord with me, even though I had the contract and a copy of her ID card." Last month Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
knickherboots Posted January 7, 2013 at 08:01 AM Report Share Posted January 7, 2013 at 08:01 AM When in doubt, people in Beijing prefer to avoid bureaucrats. You might investigate the source of their resistance. They might not be familiar with the procedure or necessary documents or, as you mention, want to avoid paying tax. But, as another commentator mentioned, filing with the PSB does not necessarily mean the tax authority will be informed. If you relieve some of that doubt by assuring the other parties that the PSB report is both routine and required, and that the tax people won't be notified if everybody stays cool and behaves, you might get further than with threats alone. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ludens Posted January 7, 2013 at 08:03 AM Author Report Share Posted January 7, 2013 at 08:03 AM If you need to have a direct contract with the landlord and the supporting documents from the landlord, then you'll need your agent's help to get those documents from the landlord. The agent may be willing to help for a fee. This might be your best option now since you've already rented the place and paid the agent. The agent is already aware that I need more documents (my friend has been talking them into handing them over for a whole day), and have made it very clear they will do everything in their power to stop me from obtaining these and registering. They have the documents, but they're scared that me registering will make them pay the tax they're supposed to pay. They say they'll only help me register if I pay the tax for the whole apartment (6000远 a year according to them, which I can't afford). This is possible/likely. Why do you think it's likely I'll get kicked out of my room without seeing my money ever again, and how would they do that? I think they won't dare because I'm a foreigner, and I believe that technically, they are the ones breaking the law. Wouldn't they be scared I'd go to the police? Again, I suggest you hint to the agent that they will be equally liable for the fine of 500/day that you are unregistered. I could try, but I've got the feeling they won't be easily scared into giving me the needed documents, they've been quite persevering until now. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cat Jones Posted January 7, 2013 at 08:48 AM Report Share Posted January 7, 2013 at 08:48 AM Have you tried to register with the police with just your contract and passport? It might be all you need. Then you have no further need to worry. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
icebear Posted January 7, 2013 at 09:17 AM Report Share Posted January 7, 2013 at 09:17 AM Why do you think it's likely I'll get kicked out of my room without seeing my money ever again, and how would they do that? I think they won't dare because I'm a foreigner, and I believe that technically, they are the ones breaking the law. Wouldn't they be scared I'd go to the police? I think if you involve the police in a way that puts pressure on the landlord then they will make your life so miserable as a tenant that you will want to leave (break the contract) on your own. Loosing your deposit and agent fee, of course, and allowing them to rent to a less discerning tenant. Your only reasonable option is pleading with/convincing them. I still think your best bet is telling them they will be liable for a 500RMB/day fine. If that doesn't work you'd might as well cave and start negotiating how much of your money you can get back (at that point starting to threaten taking the contract to the police/tax authority). Always insist they can register you when doing housing hunts! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gougou Posted January 7, 2013 at 10:12 AM Report Share Posted January 7, 2013 at 10:12 AM Ok, here's a summary of what people said above, and the order of steps I'd suggest you to take: a) Walk to the PSB with just your passport and contract. Politely ask to be registered, and if they require more documents of you maybe have them write it down for your landlord (just so you can show him something official later on). b) Talk to your landlord/agent and explain that it is just a routine step that will not affect tax payments. If that doesn't help, add the thing about both you and them incurring fines if you don't do it. c) If they are still not convinced, say that you will go to the PSB with the contract and tell them that your landlord/agent is not cooperating with you despite having signed a contract. This should be your last resort, and yes, it might lead to you being thrown out. I think in this case your status as a foreigner is more likely to be a disadvantage rather than an advantage. I would not pay any additional fees to the agent, nor would I pay tax unless provided with an official rent receipt. Also, tax is 5% if I remember correctly, so unless you pay 10,000 kuai a month, the 6,000 quoted by your agent seems to be a made-up figure. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
icebear Posted January 7, 2013 at 10:27 AM Report Share Posted January 7, 2013 at 10:27 AM I would not pay any additional fees to the agent, nor would I pay tax unless provided with an official rent receipt. Also, tax is 5% if I remember correctly, so unless you pay 10,000 kuai a month, the 6,000 quoted by your agent seems to be a made-up figure. It's not uncommon for them to insist that foreigners pay that 5%. Its not your legal obligation, but this is China. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gougou Posted January 7, 2013 at 10:50 AM Report Share Posted January 7, 2013 at 10:50 AM Yeah, I know, I used to pay it myself - but like I said, I wouldn't do that if I didn't get the official receipt. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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