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Auberon

Glossika method

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Yadang

OneEye said:

 

 

In response to Yadang's earlier questions, I'm not sure if you're asking about the book I recommended or the Glossika products. The book I recommended is pretty good Chinese for the most part. It's aimed at Taiwanese people learning English, not English speakers learning Mandarin, and sometimes the sentences are intended to clarify the English so they're not the most natural of phrases. But they're also not "for learners," so the audio is pretty natural instead of textbook-sounding. It's the English audio that's textbooky, not the Chinese.

 
From checking out the Glossika product samples that Pokarface posted, though, they seem really great. Good audio, natural ways of expressing things, and clear, authentic Taiwanese Mandarin pronunciation.

 

I was asking specifically about the book you recommended, but I'm very glad you talked about both - thank you.

 

 

Hedwards said:

 

I say that recordings are completely superfluous, because they're completely superfluous. Fluent speech is the result of internalizing grammar structures and vocabulary so that you don't have to think about how to use them. Recordings don't actually address that in any way shape or form. People use them for that, but it's the production of speech within the alloted time that results in the fluency gains.
...
As for the optimism, I'm not skeptical about it because I think that somebody who finishes it won't have learned a lot. I'm skeptical because I'm not seeing anything in the advertisement that suggests that they've addressed the typical problems with courses like this. The big one being that they tend to take a lot more time than it would take to just talk with some native speakers. 

 

I'm a little confused by this... Why don't recordings address getting fluent speech as a result of internalizing grammar? Isn't the goal to internalize the recordings, which, because they are sentences and use grammar, you are thereby internalizing the vocabulary and grammar of the sentences with each recording you memorize? And that, although you may seldom use an exact sentence you memorized in everyday speech, after you've memorized a lot of recordings the grammar in them, that you can start to combine parts and effectively make your own sentences, based on the grammar and vocab you've internalized via the sentences? 

For talking with native speakers, I definitely agree this is important, but I don't see how only talking with native speakers for a shorter time than studying sentences would make your Chinese better than a nice balance between the two; using sentences for internalizing grammar/vocab/word usage/etc. and talking with native speakers to be able to use the sentences and the grammar/words/etc. that you've learned form those sentences to say things you want to say outside of the scope of prerecorded sentences.

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imron
Or do you mean you can simultaneously summon the spelling into your mind's eye if you choose to?

I don't summon it, it's just naturally there in my mind's eye.

 

we should be thinking of characters whilst speaking, which doesn't sound like speaking naturally to me

I've been trying to train this up in Chinese - it's hard and makes my speaking stilted.  I'd love to get it to the point where that wasn't the case.

 

I agree however with your assertion that language is best understood at first as aural rather than visual.  I'd just like to get to the point where both sounds and written representation are internalised to the point were they become one and the same (e.g. thinking of one automatically makes the other appear).

 

I think that focused drilling is a great way to improve specific skills.  Here's a collection of some of my posts on drilling specific skill sets.  I also agree with what glossika mentions about needing to practice the various muscles used in speaking a new language.  You just have to practice certain things a large number of time until you've built a correct muscle memory for speaking the language well.

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realmayo

I don't summon it, it's just naturally there in my mind's eye.

 

Imron, do you mean that when you speak English, you 'see' the spellings of words?

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imron

I don't physically see them or anything, but the spellings appear in my head as I speak or as I hear them.

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JustinJJ

re: the Glossika method/materials, what level are they aimed for and what accent are the recordings in? thx

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OneEye

According to them, the Basic level roughly corresponds to the A levels in the CEFR scheme, the Fluency level corresponds to B, and the Expression level corresponds to C. The recordings I've heard are nice, clear Taiwanese Mandarin.

 

Mike actually gave me a copy of the Pronunciation Manual to review and said he'd also send me one of the GSR products. I have midterms this week, a paper due Thursday, and a translation job due, but once things settle down I'll be able to take a good look and write up a review here.

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JustinJJ

Ok sounds good. Many people on this forum have recommended memorising/internalising dialogues for improving speaking ( eg, here http://www.chinese-forums.com/index.php?/topic/37168-from-intermediate-to-advanced-level/?p=278303) so perhaps his products are good tools for training sentence structure memorisation.

 

Having learnt Chinese in Beijing I think it may feel odd drilling Taiwanese mandarin (and ideally I wouldn't want to train a hybrid accent). It also seems that his methods might use an excessive amount of english (I usually try to just use a Chinese dictionary to learn new words and), but since the products aren't overly expensive, I may try one and see what it's like. 

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Lao Che

Weird bit of graphic design going on. Intro is green, fluency is blue, and expression is red; but the color of the books often don't correspond to those colors. I supopse we're supposed to be looking at the color of the strip to the left and the dot next to basic, fluency, or expression, but that isn't immediately obvious. At first glance the Basic books appear to be expression level, and the expression level appears to be fluency. Even more confusing, the expression level books have "fluency" in their sidebar, not "expression" whereas the intro books do have "intro" in their sidebar and fluency books have "fluency" in their sidebars. Ideally, I could look at the cover of the text and know which level it is without reading anything at all.

 

It's also really difficult to tell what the difference between GMS and GSR are. Is the GMS just the book in audio form? Does the book have a program to follow that one wouldn't get if they just purchased GMS? Does the book and GMS work in conjunction (or do is it up to me to find a way to use these resources together?). Can I use GSR in conjunction with GMS? The biggest question: if I buy GSR is it a waste of money to buy GMS? Answers to some of these questions can be found if you scroll down far enough or mess around with a few of the links, but it takes far more effort than it should.

 

If GMS is just the book's sentences or an audiobook, I really would like it if they were packaged together. The site could use more package options in general, but I'm only speaking on behalf of myself.

 

From the demos, it does look like a good product, and the price isn't prohibitive. But the website could communicate the products much better. There's also a members section, but it isn't entirely clear how to access it either.

According to them, the Basic level roughly corresponds to the A levels in the CEFR scheme, the Fluency level corresponds to B, and the Expression level corresponds to C. The recordings I've heard are nice, clear Taiwanese Mandarin.

Did you mean the Intro module?

 

There are 3 modules:
Intro

Fluency

Expression

 

Fluency includes Chinese Basic 1,2, and 3, Travel, and Daily Life.

 

Or did you mean Chinese Basic 1, 2, and 3 are A levels?

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OneEye

Oh sorry, you're right.

 

Intro = A

Fluency = B

Expression = C

 

It's on the website somewhere, if I remember correctly.

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imron
Many people on this forum have recommended memorising/internalising dialogues for improving speaking

I've certainly found drilling to be useful for me and would recommend it for people as a way to push through language plateaus, or just to improve language use in general.

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JustinJJ

Hey has anyone had issues downloading the files? I purchased the business product yesterday and was sent the download links this morning. You have to copy and paste them in your browser (i.e. they are not hyperlinks). I managed to download the book, but the audio link gave me an error "The request signature we calculated does not match the signature you provided. Check your key and signing method." 

 

Edit: I tried again in half an hour and it started to download.

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Solarin

So, for the Basic 1-3 Fluency Module that's currently on sale, can anyone describe what level this is geared towards? I'm really interested in getting into this, but I'd hate to buy a product that's under or too over my level.

 

edit: never mind, looks like he put in levels for all the products.

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xiaokaka

Yes, it says A2-B2 and there are also sample recordings for each package (scroll down to the bottom of the page)!

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Unfadeable

So, I decided to take the plunge with these products as well; ordered the "expression" (B2-C1) business Chinese pack. Anybody have to wait more than 24 hours for the download link? It's been about 24 hours for me and nothing so far.  

 

I initially read of the Glossika method via OneEye's blog, but I lack the self-discipline to chop up all the audio sentences from the 8k sentence book he recommended--it all just sounded like more work than I was up for. These Glossika packs seem like they have a schedule and methodology to follow, so that should solve the problem for me. My oral Chinese continues to lag far behind my reading (which I suppose is natural to some extent), so I'm going to focus on working through this pack over the next couple of months while also receiving 10h/week of private tutoring. We'll see where that gets me--I'll post my impressions of the Glossika stuff once I dive in.

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Solarin

Unfadeable, log in to the website and check the "My Account" page which is under the cart option and view the details of your order - the download links should all be there. I ordered a few days ago and never got the email, but was able to download from those links.

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JustinJJ

I had a listen to a post with 3800 sentences on youtube (free substitute for a 'glossika-like' method), but I could only listen to one sentence before I got distracted by the accent for the English part. In other words, I think for a few dollars the Glossika files are worth paying for.

 

There are some youtube clips with examples of the glossika files if you want to see what level is suitable.

e.g. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uimza56wMJAhttps://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NtO0x8HY7-Q.

 

I think that even if you pick something below your level, being able to 背 everything from constant repetition would make your speech a lot smoother/faster even if you are not learning new words per se.  

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Unfadeable

Thanks, Solarin--the links were indeed where you described, however I guess they expired as they're currently dead; I get an XML error of some sort. I'm hopeful for the product itself but Glossika needs to get his website sorted out. The order system is obviously terrible and the distinctions between the products are quite hard to discern. I contacted customer service so hopefully I'll get the links soon.

 

Edit: Mike responded very quickly and advised I search outside my inbox; I did receive the notification with links, however it went directly to my spam folder. He assured me new links would be available my tomorrow morning. So even though I still don't have the product, I'm more than satisfied with Mike's responsiveness. 

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ChTTay

I'm interested in trying this method but find the website confusing. I passed HSK4, working towards 5, probably know 2000 characters. What level is suitable?

On wikipedia it mentions that the people who make HSK claim that it corresponds with the European frameork levels exactly. That means HSK6 is A, 5 is B etc. However, it also mentions that a study found this to be incorrect. That HSK 6 is about B1/B2.

From an earlier post, I see someone who has passed HSK 4 shouldn't have problems with the business chinese course they provide. However, I don't want to learn business Chinese. At least not right now. On glossikas site, there aren't any other packages in that level. Only business Chinese.

Can anyone clear this up for me? What level is your Chinese at and which course did you buy?

Thanks so much

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imron
However, it also mentions that a study found this to be incorrect. That HSK 6 is about B1/B2.

From what I've seen, general consensus seems to be that Hanban is being extremely optimistic in the way they equate HSK levels to European framework levels.

 

Having said that, this made me smile...

 

 

That means HSK6 is A, 5 is B etc.,

Calling HSK6 an A is a little unfair  (A is the lowest level :mrgreen:)

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