When a foreigner marries a woman in Mainland China...

[James3]

The other day I was talking to one of my language exchange partners, and she told me her best friend just got engaged to a guy from London. She was telling me some of the decisions they were going to need to make.

 

One of them, she said, was they were going to have to choose who gave up their nationality. I ask what she meant, and she said it was her understanding that one of them had to give up their nationality - either the guy from London decides he's going to "become a Chinese citizen" or she would "become a British citizen."

 

This made me wonder...just what happens when a foreigner marries a Chinese woman (and I wouldn't think it would matter where he's from. Right?)  So, is her understanding correct? And will he continue to have to worry about a visa? I'm from the U.S., and I couldn't even tell you how things work here in the states, let alone elsewhere, lol.

 

What other issues will they face, once they actually get married? And does it matter where they have the ceremony? For example, if they get married in England, does it simplify or complicate things? (Or, maybe there's no impact where they get married.)

 

(She didn't "give me a homework assignment", lol, but it did make me curious...and it did show me that I know absolutely nothing about this. I thought it would be kind of fun, next language exchange session we have, for me to show up being a little more informed about Chinese society, culture, laws, etc.)

[HuShiwei]

Neither of them need to give up their citizenship, especially if he plans to stay in China. If they marry in China or the UK he will be able to get a 6 month or longer visa to "visit family" I've been on this type of visa for years without leaving China. There is one caveat though, I can't work here. But he can always stay on a Z visa if he finds work.

However, if she wants to move to London and stay my best guess is she will need to give up Chinese citizenship. Where they get married will only change her visa application process when she applies but how, I'm not sure, that's how it works for the US anyways. *edit* again, if she can find work in London that comes with a visa she too can stay without changing citizenship but I doubt this would be ideal if she wants to stay for the long run.

Unless he is very well connected and rich he doesn't have much of a chance becoming a Chinese citizen but there is no real reason to be IMHO.

[James3]

This is great info, HuShiwei. Next language exchange session we have, I'll now appear more educated on the topic!  Thanks!

 

So, if they want to stay in China, there's no need for him to give up his British citizenship - he just has to decide what type of visa he's going to stay in China on. Got it.

[Matty]

He couldn't get Chinese citizenship that fast even if he wanted.

 

When I went to the PSB in Beijing, they told me a green card is an unwritten requirement to applying for Chinese citizenship.

To be able to "apply" for a Chinese green card via marriage he'll need be married for at least 5 years and have been in China for 9 or months every year during that period. (Possibly the most recent 4 of those years in China, it's been a while).

 

For a Chinese to get another citizenship they are legally required to give up their Chinese citizenship. However, many Chinese get a foreign citizenship and don't give up their Chinese citizenship. In these circumstances their foreign passport is not recognized by China and the UK embassy will not be able to help them as a UK citizen in China if something bad happens (since China treats them as Chinese).

 

Also you must exit China on the passport you entered with and I would never recommend using a foreign passport in China if you're also a Chinese citizen. (That's just asking for troubles.)

[James3]

Thanks Matty. Sounds like there's potentially several ways this guy from London could approach this.  I guess if he was intent on gaining his Chinese citizenship, he'd need a Chinese green card (via marriage) to do it. And as you explained, that doesn't happen overnight. (In this scenario, would he have to give up his British citizenship?)

 

On the other hand, if they decided to spend the rest of their lives in London, it sounds like she could become a British citizen and then decide whether she was going to give up her Chinese citizenship or not. If she chose not to give up her Chinese citizenship (even though legally it sounds like she's supposed to), sounds like she'd have to be real careful in the future how she conducted herself.

[Matty]

There's many people who do it. It seems as long as the UK allows multi-citizenship (don't require a document saying they've given up their Chinese citizenship) it's pretty simple. That being said I have no first hand experience and can't be sure.

 

Pretty much: use your Chinese passport in China, use your UK passport in the UK/Europe.

 

It would be work doing a little more research though, since I'm no expert on the subject.

 

That being said, the foreign passport I hear is "not recognised" more than considered a criminal offence. (Research it, don't trust me too much)

 

=================

 

~~~ Not sure if this is still current

 

Getting UK citizenship I hear is not always simple, and sometimes taking a foreign wife to the UK can cause troubles. Especially due to a new £18,600 income threshold for the UK-based sponsor.

 

Though I heard there is a trick, something like: (the Surinder Singh route)

 

The UK is part of the EEA (European ) and hence if you are a EEA citizen (which since you're a UK citizen you are!) you can take your wife can travel with you freely throughout the EU.

By going to another EU country for a few months you can take your wife to the UK as a spouse of a EEA citizen with free travel throughout the EEA instead of as a UK citizen.

~ That's very rough but worth keeping in mind.

 

Further readings:

http://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2013/dec/15/uk-immigration-policy-britons-spouses-trauma <== You can probably skip this one, but I found it first

http://www.politics.co.uk/comment-analysis/2013/06/07/comment-how-europe-saves-british-citizens

http://www.freemovement.org.uk/surinder-singh-immigration-route/

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Surinder_Singh_route

[James3]

Matty, awesome info. You know, I really was kind of just wanting to have a little more info to bring to my next language exchange session, but all this info is great...because for my language exchange partner to have had the idea that the bloke from London was going to have to give up his citizenship, kind of tells me her best friend thought the same thing. And it sounds like that's entirely inaccurate. (Now, the challenge is...how do I not offend my language exchange partner when I show up for our next session with all this info, telling her she was wrong? lol) But she can give this info to her friend, and maybe the both of them do some more research.

[Matty]

Just never say she's wrong and don't speak too as a matter of factly. Be a little brief too. 

 

I heard a friend say that now (makes them feel they're not wrong, perhaps just a little outdated) you don't need to ....

 

If she pursues the topic further than you should feel safe to get more specific.

 

[Or]

 

Now it's getting harder to get Chinese citizenship due to international relations, but your husband can still get a family visiting visa any time he wants. If he wants to work though he'd have to leave China to get a new work visa.

 

==========

 

A little strategy and not sounding too confident can go a long way. Just soften everything a little.

[James3]

Ah, some good tips. Thanks. This should keep me out of trouble. :-)

[Lu]

First, if a foreigner marries a Chinese, neither has to give up their citizenship. No idea how the friend of the language partner got that idea. Everyone just keeps their own passport.

Second, to my knowledge the number of foreigners gaining Chinese citizenship can be counted on one hand. Unless the rules change, your language partner's friend's husband is highly unlikely to ever get Chinese citizenship. This also makes it hard to impossible to give up his British citizenship, because most countries won't let you do that if it would render you stateless.

On the other hand, if the friend decides to move to the UK with her husband, she can probably, after a few years, become a British citizen (and then she would need to give up her Chinese passport, because China doesn't allow dual citizenship). But to my knowledge, that's not a requirement, and if she wants to she can live out her days in the UK with her Chinese passport, as long as she has a visa.

Perhaps your language partner meant they have to decide where they're going to live -> which country they're going to be resident of? If she really meant 'citizenship', she really has been so misinformed that it can be harmful.

You also asked about whether it matters where they have the ceremony. I don't have any first-hand information about this, but to my knowledge, you can get legally married in either country, or even in a third country if you would like that. Various kinds of paperwork are needed (with probably the most paperwork needed if you get married in a third country), usually at least including some kind of proof from the foreign spouse that s/he is not married. Once you're married, you need to register your marriage with the other country as well. The respective embassies and such will have all the necessary information on that.

In China, the official marriage (where you get your marriage certificate) and the party are separated. The official part is seen as just an administrative thing, you're only considered married in the eyes of society once you've had the party/banquet. In my country, and many other Western countries, the official marriage is the most important part (and usually a party is thrown right after). If I were to marry a Chinese man, I'd do the official part in Holland and another party in China, so that each country gets the part they value the most.

[ChouDoufu]

I will try to make this quick.

1. You can get married anywhere, but you can't have legal marriages in both countries, i.e. You can only do the legal paperwork in one country, otherwise you will be breaking polygamy laws even though you are married to the same person.

2. Getting married in China makes living in China a bit easier. If you were married outside of China, you would need the Chinese embassy to validate a copy of your foreign marriage certificate before you could use it to, say, get a spouse visa.

Fir someone married in the US. This can be annoying because the US govt does not issue marriage certificates, only states do. You end up getting your visa validated by a state, the the US state department, and then the Chinese embassy. If your in this situation, use an agency to do this for you.

[roddy]

ChouDoufu! Not seen you for ages! 

[Johnny20270]

The problem will be when they come to live in London. Just because a UK citizen marries overseas does not give their spouse automatic right to live in the UK. There are numerous stories in the papers of cases where couples with kids have been refused entry back to UK (then non UK passport holder). You must prove things like

 

relationship is genuine and lasting, cannot be already married, your partner meets key language requirements and importantly you meet the financial requirements

 

These last two have got many people, especially if both are not working, no savings or students. 

 

Remember, the political climate in the UK is changing rapidly. There is an anti-immigration sentiment growing in the UK because of huge immigration abuse from many.  My friend married a Taiwanese and they had no problem but her friend was refused (genuine marriage) because her husband lost his job

 

Best check with the Home office for specific information

[Matty]

Johnny20270 - Read this article about how to bring your family to the UK without meeting the requirements as a member/citizen of the EEA, it may help:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Surinder_Singh_route

[洋人丹]

No one ever needs to give up citizenship for marrying someone of another country. Don't know where your friend got that idea...

 

In reality there is no reason to get chinese citizenship even if given the opportunity. A Chinese green card (really it's just permanent residence) allows one all the benefits of being a citizen (don't have to get visas, can use the green card to do things at banks, stay in hotels, enter and exit China, can also get certain kinds of social welfare) outside of political rights, which really doesn't matter anyway.

 

Green Cards are very hard to get (only a couple thousand in the past decade), but the government has slowly been lowering requirements, and there is pressure to lower them even further. I am going to apply for mine next year, even though I doubt I'll get it...

 

Someone who has a Chinese spouse can get a 1 year family visa (or if you meet certain requirements a 2 year family visa, it's what I'm currently on), but you can't work legally.

[Touchstone57]

Not sure I would ever give up my British passport for a Chinese one, even if it was offered on a plate.

 

Even if you could get both passports, it would not legally be recognized by China. I know that some children born to British - Chinese parents have some complications depending on which passport they hold. If they are born in China and try to sneakily get passports for both countries (as immigration authorities may not explicitly find out they have citizenship for other countries), they will have problems returning to their parents home country, depending on which passport they leave on, and may even be prevented from leaving/returning by immigration authorities (this has happened previously). 

 

China will legally recognize marriage from other countries, so it isn't necessary to get married twice. I'm now listed in my wife's hukou as her husband (I'm not sure if we will ever need it). The local authorities in my wife's hometown where happy enough to see a copy of our UK marriage certificate, so we didn't need to go through the Chinese Embassy or anything.

 

It's not that easy to just go to the UKn, in order to qualify for a spouse visa the couple need to satisfy the income requirements and have a guaranteed job in the UK, which isn't that easy if you are not living in the UK. Unfortunately these rules won't change soon....

[roddy]

I was going to say they might, as there was a legal challenge in process. However I just checked and it was decided a few days ago in the Home Office's favour, so the income requirements stand. 

[James3]

Cool, what a bunch of helpful info. Thank you Lu, ChouDoufu, Johnny20270, 洋人丹, Touchstone57, and roddy for your posts, as well as HuShiwei and Matty.
 

This is truly going to be good news for my language exchange partner's best friend (and her fiancé!)  I just know you're going to make their day! I think they were both stressing over who was going to have to give up their citizenship. But alas, no need!

[ChouDoufu]

Johnny20270's answer describes the situation for US citizens who try to get a green card for their spouse.

The financial requirement might trip you up if you work in China. US insists the sponsor needs to have income above the US defined poverty line or assets equal to up to 2X the poverty line (depending on your income). And you'll need tax returns (file them even if you don't have to) and income stubs or check copies (hopefully, you weren't just paid in cash).

One more requirement that could mess you up: you might need to meet US domicile requirements. If you have a house in your name, you are fine.

If you have trouble meeting these criteria, you could get a financial sponsor (e.g. Parents), but I think that requires more forms.

[butterflyflyaway]

Hey,guys,I just registered less than 24 hours and this topic really had my attention. cuz it's so relavent to my situation now. Here's the thing,I'm a chinese woman,and my fiance is an American,we planned to get married someday and now we have the same confusion about how to deal with our nationality if we want to get married.

 

According to Hushiwei (ty,your info was like opened a new window in my world),neither of us need to give up our nationality,cuz  one of us will be able to get a 6 month or longer visa to "visit family" ,but here my question is ,what should we do if the valid date of this kinda visa was expired,would he need to leave China and back so that he can get a new one or this kinda visa can be extended without my fiance leaving? And if he find a job during he's stay,is this hard to get a "Z"visa?if he can get one,forgive me keep repeating this queston,is this "Z"visa also have a valid date?and what should we do if the date is expired?

 

Seems above is the situation we need to handle if we choose to live and work in China,and here's our another choice:we live in Ameican. my question is ,can I keep my nationality if we want to live in U.S for a very long time ,like,spend the rest of our life there,is that legal if I won't change my nationality from begining to the end? and if that won't work or for some other reasons that I have to change my nationality,then can I back to China after that? and how long I can stay in China once I'm not a chinese citizen any more?