Language Learning and Mandarin Mormon Missionaries

[msittig]

 

Isn't 传教 illegal in China?

 

From http://tieba.baidu.com/p/849582492 :

 

 

    国务院《宗教活动场所管理条例》第二条规定：

    “本条例所称宗教活动场所，是指开展宗教活动的寺院、宫观、清真寺、教堂及其他固定处所。设立宗教活动场所，必须进行登记。登记办法由国务院宗教事务部门制定”。

    

     根据我国《宗教活动场所管理条例》第3条规定，在宗教场所内正常的宗活动受法律保护。

    中共中央《关于我国社会主义时期宗教的基本观点和基本政策》第六部分明确指出：“任何宗教组织和教徒不应当在宗教活动场所以外布道、传教，宣传有神论。”

 

But back on topic, 戴睿 thanks for this post. My parents were (evangelical christian) missionaries too, and had to learn Spanish in their late 20s at a training school in Costa Rica before being sent to Spain. They don't have much to say about their language learning experience, so it was fascinating to read your account. Thanks again!

[studychinese]

戴 睿, thanks for your praise. It's always good to talk to another missionary. Let me see what else I can remember about my mission.

I found some resistance to my teachings. The people of the east found it difficult to believe that the gods lived on Mount Olympus, and that gods were shaped like men. I did gather a small following however, and was permitted to install a shrine in the atrium of the home of a wealthy convert.

While still fresh in this city called 'Shanghai' I was most foully scammed by local merchants. I lost most of my month's stipend from the temple in Athens buying a 'genuine toenail of Zeus' only to find that there were other vendors selling exactly the same item. How dare they deceive a holy man! To Hades with them.

I was struggling with learning their language, and worse my inability to learn their writings (originally taught to human beings by chickens, no less!) deepened my sense of inferiority.

It was in a local restaurant that I found myself in trouble with the authorities. After drinking some of their potent white wine and struggling to communicate with the waitress, I said something like "xiaojie, how much, take home?", which lead to a terrible misunderstanding. On hand was a local judge and he promptly arrested me for solicitation of prostitution! Me, a holy man!

That night I spent the night in dudgeon in a dungeon. The cell was crowded, filled to overflowing with local men. That said the men there were most congenial and cordial. Really I had never met a friendlier bunch, so open with their favour and camaraderie.

The next morning the authorities deemed that I could not have solicited that waitress to prostitution as it was clearly not in my nature. They did want to know if I had been in prison before (most assuredly I had not!) and they said they are surprised as I took to prison life like a fish takes to water. How queer!

Ironically it was right outside the prison that a person solicited me. *** A fine fellow approached me and offered me a massage. I said that I was indeed interested in a massage from a handsome gentlemen such as he and that he would be richly compensated for his services. He said he was not the masseuse, that he would introduce me to girls. I objected, nay, my fine, handsome fellow, no need to involve girls in business to be conducted between men!

The handsome fellow then grimaced and walked away. I called after him but he kept walking. ***

So this is their game, I thought! Tempt you with a fine and handsome fellow, and then suddenly do a bait and switch! Truly the merchant class here is without any ethics at all.

I began my walk back to the shrine thinking about my mixed night. On one hand I was now known to the authorities as a possible molester of women, but on the other hand I had made some life long friends while in prison.

But those were only the most minor of challenges that I faced in the east.

*** Actually happened

[耳耳语语]

This thread reminds me that Jesuits missionnaries were the first sinologs, studing the chinese langage in itself.

Matteo Ricci works are still a reference (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Matteo_Ricci ). You can dowload his dictionnary in Pleco

[MPhillips]

Francis Xavier the Jesuit co-founder died in China, although his tomb is in Goa. His lower right arm is venerated in a Roman church, but it appears another piece of him, a humerus, remains in China still, at a museum in Macau.

[imron]

Slightly OT, there's a TV series about the life of the Jesuit Castiglione, starring Da Shan, discussed in the first episode project here.

[OneEye]

Matteo Ricci works are still a reference (http://en.wikipedia....ki/Matteo_Ricci ). You can dowload his dictionnary in Pleco

 

That dictionary is not by Ricci. It was published in 2001 by scholars at the Ricci Association (in Paris, I believe).

[耳耳语语]

You're right :

 

A/ "Ricci and Ruggieri compiled a Portuguese-Chinese dictionary, the first in any European language, for which they developed a system for transcribing Chinese words in the Latin alphabet. The manuscript was misplaced in the Jesuit Archives in Rome, not re-discovered until 1934, and only published in 2001.^"

 

^{B/ The Grand Ricci is a work in progress by the Jesuits of the Ricci association. The association exists since 1987, but in fact they work since 1937 on it.}

^{It was published in print in 2001, in DVD in 2010, and now the electronic version is developped for mobiles only.}

http://www.grandricci.org/histoire.html

^{http://www.grandricci.org/histoire_preface.pdf}

[studychinese]

It looks like I got a bunch of negs for my parody. Just to be clear it is not a parody of the OP. It is a parody of the post in an earlier thread that said that Mormon language skills came from their faith in God. I thought it would be obvious but perhaps not everyone saw the previous thread. I'm glad that the OP got the joke.

[MPhillips]

I, for one, was waiting to find out what happened next!

[Ruben von Zwack]

No downies from me. I think you should contact John Cleese for a sequel, "Life of Brian in China" or something like that!

[Shelley]

Thanks for the clarification.

[raydpratt]

淨土極樂

 

戴 睿 wrote that his assigned mission companion was a native from Zhejiang, China, but that the assigned companion had already been in England for a year. 戴 睿 later explicitly wrote that he served his mission in the U.K. He only made those two statements about his mission location, so it was easy to miss.

[zachhoy]

So am I gathering indirectly that in fact the mission was served in the UK and not in China? That makes learning the language even more difficult.

 

The immersion method has been shown to be effective many times over. In fact, I think it's a great way for pinyin to be taught, so learners don't think of pinyin as a set of 'rules' placed over English phonetics but rather a sub-language in itself which is to be read differently. And practicing is the only way to get spoken language up to snuff. 

 

Like the CIA, LDS must have effective methods for language training based on their purpose and experience in the field. It lends credence to this account. 

 

Btw, those are some cute girls being proselytized!

[trisha2766]

Sorry to bring back an old post, don't always have much time to stop by here anymore.

 

In our travel group there was a guy that I suspect was mormon who spoke very fluent Chinese.  He talked to our guide entirely in chinese, very fast and they never seemed like they had any problem understanding each other. I was very jealous.  Still am.

 

I was always curious about how he learned mandarin so well, now I guess I know.

 

But the challenge is still how can I improve my chinese like that? Has the mormon church ever considered offering classes like that to non-mormons? I would love an online class, where you can study at your own pace whenever you have the time, but still have online video chats and help to develop speaking and listening skills.

[Shelley]

I would love an online class, where you can study at your own pace whenever you have the time, but still have online video chats and help to develop speaking and listening skills.

 

This would be at odds with full immersion method used.

 

I understand their success is due to a intensive course with no English spoken for the first 3 weeks.

 

Have a look at TPRS (link below) this is a method that concentrates on speaking listening comprehension.

 

I use it and find it has helped a lot.

 

http://miraculousmandarin.weebly.com/

[Meng Lelan]

Has the mormon church ever considered offering classes like that to non-mormons? I would love an online class, where you can study at your own pace whenever you have the time, but still have online video chats and help to develop speaking and listening skills.

 

 

 

The closest I can think of is Brigham Young University does have online courses for high school credit (and some for college credit) in several foreign languages including Chinese. The teacher led ones have online chats. 

[hedwards]

@Trisha, you can just hire somebody in China to talk over skype. That's what I'm doing and it's quite affordable. Depending upon the amount of training they have and their accent, it can cost differing amounts of money, but the guy I'm talking with only charges $4 an hour when agreeing to 5 hours.

 

Italki has a fair number of teachers of various levels of qualification and specialty.

[Wang7]

Outstanding post!! I think what must self learners lack the most is effective planning which is essential for developing fluency.

[trisha2766]

I see what you're saying, but I can't move to China or even move temporarily to take a class.  Maybe a weekend class now and then, but that's all.  I've got  a 6 year old with some health issues and a mom with some pretty serious health problems.  I've got a fair amount of time, but I have to control when I can or can't study - only while my daughter is at school or with her dad.  And I have to be available if necessary, any time, to take care of my daughter. So, while I can put in many hours an ave. week, I have to control the exact times. An online course that I could do at my own pace, and have someone to interact with, on my level, as  I have the time, in an immersive, intensive style would be great.  I feel kind of stuck right now.

 

I always figured I couldn't afford skype lessons with someone from China, but then I didn't realize it could be done for a little as $4 an hour.  Still, I'm a little skeptical about not being able to do it in person.  And mostly, there's always the problem I've had with trying to speak to someone and it takes forever for them to understand what level I'm at and usually they start talking way over my head and I'm completely lost and get nothing out of it.   For that price though, even if it takes a while to where I can really make progress with it, it might still be worth it.

 

Ideally, or at least as ideal as I could imagine having at this point, would be an older Chinese woman who doesn't live too far away, knows very little English, can't drive or really get out on her own and a little bored that I could 'hang out' with - drive her to wherever she needs to go and practice chinese with her along the way - all in context of real life situations.

[hedwards]

Trisha, I'd like to point out that you can make progress just studying 10 minutes at a time if that's all the time you have. As long as you do it every day and preferably a couple times a day, you'll get there eventually. In person is obviously great, but if it turns into a matter of in person or not at all, that's not good.

 

IMHO, the best use of skype sessions is really as a way of testing progress. Every week or two calling into a native speaker in order to verify that what you're learning is correct and get directions about what to do next is well worth the money.

 

Also, be aware that if money is an issue, you can often times arrange for a language exchange online. There's several sites that do that. It's not as good as paying somebody, but it's far better than nothing.

 

In the end, just about no matter how cash strapped and busy you are, chances are you can find a way of making this happen.