When to use 儿 or not

[ithelps]

Okay so how do i know when i am suppose to use 儿 or not? I say 儿 for words that i am taught but there are a lot pf words that i learn outside of class, and am not sure.if i am suppose to add 儿 or not.

Should i say 谢谢儿，你好儿

Help

[AdamD]

Besides what you've put in your post, do you have more specific examples of how you're seeing 儿 used?

 

In a really broad sense, you don't have to use 儿 unless it's part of a formal word like 儿子，女儿 or 儿童。If you're not explicitly taught to put 儿 in a word, don't worry too much about it.

 

When you're in the north east of China (someone who's better experienced than me, please refine or correct what I'm saying here), you can use words like 这儿，那儿 and 哪儿 where 这里，那里 and 哪里 would suffice. Other than that, you shouldn't stress about using 儿 at the end of words, and only worry if ever you end up in that part of China and need to understand what people are saying. For example, this year I heard a person in Beijing refer to 王府井 as 王府井儿，which sounded like 'wang-fu-jurr'.

[ithelps]

No i just want to say 儿 so i can sound more like the real mandarin, but i know more than what i am taught. It is just confusing when i say 儿 sometimes， and not always.

There is a difference when you use 哪儿，这儿 compared with 哪里，这里。i am not a native so i can't explain it, but there are differences, i can't explain it

[AdamD]

It does feel different saying 这儿。From my own experience, the only thing I can put it down to is regional differences: I've said 这里 in Beijing and been misunderstood, and I've said 这儿 in Shanghai and been misunderstood.

[889]

Erhua is often like wanna and gonna in English: if you're eating out with friends in Beijing, you'll order 一瓶儿啤酒 and 酱爆鸡丁儿 and talk about shopping on 王府井儿. But as you move south and in more formal situations, you'll begin to drop the erhua, starting with the more extreme Beijing usages. Like so much in language, play-it-by-ear is the best approach.

 

In any event, you certainly want to first learn the standard forms then adapt them by erhua, not vice versa.

 

(And before you try to start erhua-ing like a 北京人儿, recall how Chinese English speakers sound when they use wanna and gonna, especially when they overdo it.)

[roddy]

If it's in a textbook or a dictionary you can safely use it in pretty much any context. Otherwise feel free to copy native speakers, but don't go making up opportunities to add it on yourself. 

[Demonic_Duck]

- If you hear 儿化音 used at the end of the word from some speakers, you're probably safe to add it at the end of that word

- If you hear it used at the end of that word from almost all speakers, you should add it at the end of the word

- If you hear it used at the end of a certain word but only from a very few speakers, it's probably considered dialectical

- If you literally never hear it used at the end of a word (as in your examples of 谢谢儿/你好儿), of course you shouldn't use it.

 

If there's any difference between 这里/那里/哪里 and 这儿/那儿/哪儿 (other than the fact the latter is used less down south), it's that the latter is a little more colloquial. In fact, in many cases adding 儿化音 gives a more colloquial feel.

[realmayo]

If there's any difference between 这里/那里/哪里 and 这儿/那儿/哪儿 (other than the fact the latter is used less down south), it's that the latter is a little more colloquial.

 

I presume that only applies in 儿化 areas, i.e. not in most of China?

[Demonic_Duck]

Well, I guess if someone who spoke a dialect not prone to using 儿化音 suddenly started saying “这儿” and “那儿”, it would just sound affected, rather than colloquial.

[Jason Bauer]

Don't use 儿. You can only use it in some special cases. Like 哪儿， 这儿。

[Juliette (法珠雷)]

^ I have to disagree with that. Beijing and Tianjin people (from what I've experienced) use it a lot more than just 这儿, 哪儿。 you also have verbs like 玩, and nouns like 缝, 画, 空, 事, to name a few.

A bus driver in Tianjin pronounced 七里台 as 七里台儿 (...tar).... I could go on .

[L-F-J]

Standard Mandarin doesn't use 儿化 so often, only in a few cases, e.g. 这儿, 那儿, 一点儿, 一块儿, etc.. In the rest of China you'll just sound silly if you use a bunch of 儿化 beyond this and you're not actually a northern Chinese native. It's not used so much elsewhere, and you'll just stand out, even more so than just being a non-native speaker already dealing with pronunciation and tone difficulties.

 

In the North, 儿化 is used often on "small" nouns. Almost anything small can get an 儿 (e.g. 签字儿), whereas in the rest of China you'll not hear this. Often the non-儿化 equivalent to these small nouns would have the 子 suffix (e.g. 瓶子／瓶儿; 小孩子/小孩儿).

 

If you really want to get used to where 儿化 is applicable, it's best to study Chinese from Beijing textbooks that use it in all their dialogues. You'll see things like 的时候儿 and so on. Then at higher levels, watch Beijing TV series and such.

 

But again, Standard Mandarin (which is not Beijing dialect) doesn't really use it to that extent. So unless you're in Beijing or somewhere north where it's common like that, it's just going to make you stand out and sound even funnier than you already do as a non-native. Especially if you use it incorrectly (谢谢儿/ 你好儿)!

[MissOHara]

If you are not sure whether or not to use it, then choose don't.

[studychinese]

Three months in Beijing didn't give me an indication about how to use it properly. In my short visit to Haerbin people seemed to put the 儿 on the end of almost every word.

The result? I don't use it, and use southern styles instead. Perhaps there is some sort of style guide out there for it.

[歐博思]

When to use 儿化 is a very simple logical process, let me walk you through it here. 

 

You know when the weather is very cold outside, your tongue would stick to a pole if you were to lick it. In order to avoid the potentially embarrassing faux pax of tongue freezing to the top of your mouth, 东北 Chinese have come up with the ingenious solution to say “来一瓶儿啤酒”，thus sparing themselves a velar nasal /ŋ/ which would tragically obstruct flow of said 啤酒.

 

But it's nice and warm in the south so you don't need it here.

[Demonic_Duck]

Three months in Beijing didn't give me an indication about how to use it properly.

I'd say Beijing is a great place to learn it, as you have natives rhotacising all over the place, but to balance that you also have out-of-towners who don't use it much or at all. As such, should be easier to tell which words always or almost always carry 儿化音, and which are simply Beijing dialect.

 

In my short visit to Haerbin people seemed to put the 儿 on the end of almost every word.

It may sound like that because of accent and/or mumbling, but if you analysed it you'd find that a) most words aren't rhotacised (I'd imagine even in the most heavily rhotacised dialect, it'd still be less than 10%), and b) there are very distinct patterns as to which words are and aren't rhotacised, though these may vary between dialects, and even to a small extent between speakers.

 

The result? I don't use it, and use southern styles instead. Perhaps there is some sort of style guide out there for it.

There should be. I wonder if there is...

 

You know when the weather is very cold outside, your tongue would stick to a pole if you were to lick it. In order to avoid the potentially embarrassing faux pax of tongue freezing to the top of your mouth, 东北 Chinese have come up with the ingenious solution to say “来一瓶儿啤酒”，thus sparing themselves a velar nasal /ŋ/ which would tragically obstruct flow of said 啤酒.

 

But it's nice and warm in the south so you don't need it here.

Now you just need to spin it out to a few thousand words and you can write a master's thesis on it.

[eliaso]

In the North, 儿化 is used often on "small" nouns.

 

This is exactly how people in 东北 use erhua - 袋儿，瓶儿，盘儿，碗儿 etc. Also, for example you could say 旅馆儿, but you wouldn‘t say 宾馆儿. Why? Well, the first one is small while the second one is big. However, that is just the rough logic of it as far as I can tell. For example, I've never heard anyone saying 筷儿, but instead everyone says 筷子. Don't know why really, maybe it has something to do with chopsticks being two things, in a pair, anyone knows?

 

I listen to how locals use erhua and only use myself what I've heard multiple times in real life.  I don't care about sounding silly using erhua - this is how people around me talk everyday! I feel it would be silly of me asking for a 袋子in a supermarket as I've never heard anyone calling it that.

[jobm]

Guys, this may be stupid but out of curiosity, I asked my teacher why do we have the expression  哪里，哪里 while 哪儿，哪儿 is awkward..

 

I think 东北人 also uses 哪里，哪里.. why not 哪儿，哪儿 then? So, I don't agree with the 哪里 = 哪儿 anymore haha!

[Demonic_Duck]

I don't understand your post. Why and in what sense don't you think 哪里 = 哪儿?

[eliaso]

I think 东北人 also uses 哪里，哪里.. why not 哪儿，哪儿 then?

 

Actually, instead of 哪里哪里 people here say " 哪儿? " with the same meaning. It's pretty common - unlike 哪里哪里 which to me feels like only existing on some 口语 textbooks that foreigners use.