Walkingtree Posted January 21, 2015 at 05:07 PM Report Share Posted January 21, 2015 at 05:07 PM Hello all. I've been reading this website for a few months now, but finally decided to sign-up. Thank you all for the great discussions so far! I recently took and passed the HSK 4 [80% overall], but I feel my active vocabulary hovers around a frustrating 200 word range of expression. I usually understand people when they speak to me in Chinese, but I feel like a child when it comes to be my turn to speak. So I started doing more conversation practice. I now have three tutors that I meet with for a few hours each every week. Has anybody else had a similar experience? Were there any activities or techniques you found useful for increasing the range of your spoken vocabulary? Thanks! 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jobm Posted January 22, 2015 at 03:35 AM Report Share Posted January 22, 2015 at 03:35 AM I have this problem too It is so much harder if I know the different meanings of a word Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Demonic_Duck Posted January 22, 2015 at 07:41 AM Report Share Posted January 22, 2015 at 07:41 AM The answer is essentially to use it. Do some 造句 every week, then get your tutor to correct them. Write a lang-8 journal. Ask your tutors to be picky with you when you talk, suggesting not just ways to make the sentence grammatical but to make it more natural and interesting. Take notes about their suggestions, and practice using them. Equally, be realistic. You'll never get 100% of your vocabulary into the active zone, and that's not necessarily even desirable (as it would limit your comprehension to things which you yourself could produce). The fact that words are there in your passive vocabulary makes them much easier to move to your active vocabulary than if you haven't learnt them at all. Finally, are you sure your 200 word estimate is at all accurate? At that level, you'd barely be able to say anything at all, beyond a few very simple sentences. It seems strange that you could comfortably pass HSK4 with such a low level of active vocab. 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Johnny20270 Posted January 22, 2015 at 08:07 AM Report Share Posted January 22, 2015 at 08:07 AM our teacher has a good habit of giving us say 7 words and we have to build a story around them. It does work actually .... (after a lot of emm err ahh) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Walkingtree Posted January 22, 2015 at 08:10 AM Author Report Share Posted January 22, 2015 at 08:10 AM Thanks for the feedback Demonic_Duck. I had forgotten about Lang8, excellent idea. I used it in the past to generate example sentences for vocab I was learning, then putting it into Anki, but I got bogged down really quickly and realized I had no idea how to select between similar sentences. However now using it only for honing my expressions should be more appropriate. Also, I pulled 200 out of the air. I guess I'm just tired with what I can express and need to branch out more. Probably just reading more and paying attention to the grammar will help. Allright - I'm off to flap my gums on Lang8! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
imron Posted January 23, 2015 at 07:12 AM Report Share Posted January 23, 2015 at 07:12 AM It does work actually .... (after a lot of emm err ahh) Record yourself practising these sentences, then go back and listen to where you umm and ahh, and then trying saying it again paying attention not to umm and ahh in those places. Repeat until you can say the sentence without any umms and ahhs. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alan Li Posted January 23, 2015 at 07:27 AM Report Share Posted January 23, 2015 at 07:27 AM Hi Walkingtree, I am a native Chinese but have been living and working in Australia for 10 years. I remembered when I just started learning English, I had the exact problem that you are having - limited and inactive vocabulary. One of the solutions I came up was to force myself to think in English. Look back now I believe that thinking in English was a key to accelerating my study progress. If you force yourself to constantly think in Chinese, you will be able to maximise the opportunities to use the words you have learnt, your vocabulary will move into the 'active' zone in a few months time. Remember, repetition is vital in learning a foreign language, so push yourself harder Wish you all the best! Alan Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Demonic_Duck Posted January 23, 2015 at 08:54 AM Report Share Posted January 23, 2015 at 08:54 AM @Alan Li: How did you go about forcing yourself to think in English? It sounds like that would require rigorously policing your own thoughts, and in your unguarded moments you'd just slip back into your native language. For what it's worth, I recently noticed that whenever I'm rehearsing a conversation in my head, I automatically do it in Chinese (even if the imagined conversation is with English-speaking friends, or even my parents). I never made the conscious choice to do this, but it's quite interesting. All other thoughts, however, are in English. I think thinking in the target language undoubtedly has its advantages, but the problem is you don't get any feedback on it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Johnny20270 Posted January 23, 2015 at 09:12 AM Report Share Posted January 23, 2015 at 09:12 AM I am a native Chinese but have been living and working in Australia for 10 years. I remembered when I just started learning English, I had the exact problem that you are having - limited and inactive vocabulary. One of the solutions I came up was to force myself to think in English. We are told this a lot! I just can't see how to actively do that yet. Maybe there are stages, dunno. Right now I am at the stage where I have come to the realization that I am saying everything wrong (before I was blissfully unaware) .... well not 'wrong', just not how a native Chinese person speaks, e.g. I practically never use 把, nor 让 / 叫，keep same word order as English and don't use efficient style sentences like the Chinese do I think a lot of reading and listening helps, as does saying 'don't use this word, think of another!". I never follow my own advice though lol Remember, repetition is vital in learning a foreign language, so push yourself harder Agree with that! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Walkingtree Posted January 23, 2015 at 11:29 AM Author Report Share Posted January 23, 2015 at 11:29 AM As for speaking to yourself, I think it's kind of like the chicken and the egg: if your Chinese is good enough you can do it, do make your Chinese good you need to do it. However, as an exhortation to a fledgling intermediate the advice is well taken. On another note, I played "Taboo" today with my language partner. The goal of the game is to get the other to say a specific word, but you cannot say that word nor any part of it. My hope is that it will make me more flexible in explaining around a word if I don't immediately recall the specific one. And it was fun! I got a little ballsy and described words I didn't even know. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sajimi Posted January 23, 2015 at 11:53 AM Report Share Posted January 23, 2015 at 11:53 AM I have that same problem too! I read and understand pretty well but feel like my "active" vocabulary is really limited. I should be able to say a bunch of things, in theory, but somehow, those things never spring to mind when I talk. It's gotten to the point where I sort of ashamed of how poor my vocab is and it keeps me from speaking in Chinese with people (in language exchanges or just in stores, etc.). I see friends that probably know a lot less words than I do but that are happy to go chat with people and just practice their Chinese. It's silly really. I'm pretty sure I should just change my mindset and go for it, right? Any tips on overcoming that? Taboo sounds fun. I'll give that a try! 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PaulSav Posted January 23, 2015 at 02:28 PM Report Share Posted January 23, 2015 at 02:28 PM Similar to what Demonic_Duck said, you can first use those words while writing, since this gives you more time to think about their usage. If I do this then I find it easier to use them while speaking, rather than just going straight from "flashcards to speaking." You can either do a random writing prompt or you can grab a list of words you want to practice and then form a prompt around that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
abcdefg Posted January 23, 2015 at 02:56 PM Report Share Posted January 23, 2015 at 02:56 PM As for speaking to yourself, I think it's kind of like the chicken and the egg: if your Chinese is good enough you can do it, do make your Chinese good you need to do it. I think in Chinese almost all the time. This afternoon as I was walking down the street I reminded myself I needed to get one of the shoulder straps on my knapsack sewn up. It was coming apart. Realized I didn't know how to say that easily. Stopped right then and there and looked up the missing word. (To sew or stitch = 缝 = féng) Stopped at a shoe repair shop and asked if they did that kind of thing. Made the new word become part of a sentence and moved it into the "active use" part of my brain as soon as possible. Tomorrow or the next day when I walk by that place, I'll stop and thank them for doing such a good job, thus using the new word again. When i go home to the US, I have a tough time for the first couple days, translating stuff from English (my native language) into Chinese and then back again without even realizing it. Maybe I've been here too long. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alan Li Posted January 24, 2015 at 04:27 AM Report Share Posted January 24, 2015 at 04:27 AM How did you go about forcing yourself to think in English? It sounds like that would require rigorously policing your own thoughts, and in your unguarded moments you'd just slip back into your native language. Forcing yourself to think in a foreign language is a looooong process, it doesn't really matter whether you say something correctly or not, it matters that you are saying it (in your mind). You will definitely feel unnatural at the beginning, but once you have formed a habit of using it, you will see amazing results. It is like I am doing push-ups to build my muscle, when I started a few weeks ago, I could only do 3 sets of 20 reps, now I can do 5 sets of 20 easily. Take baby steps, keep doing it, form a habit, you will be amazed by what you can achieve OVER TIME. Cheers Alan 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Walkingtree Posted January 28, 2015 at 10:58 AM Author Report Share Posted January 28, 2015 at 10:58 AM A quick update - I started using a program called HelloTalk. I'm combining this with my vocabulary study. What I do is take a word I'm trying to learn, and send it to a few people. Since there are so many people using that program I can essentially drill a sentence with a number of folks - obvious the feedback quality differs, but at least it gets me using the words right away. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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