Guest spyda151p Posted December 9, 2003 at 11:32 PM Report Share Posted December 9, 2003 at 11:32 PM Can any one tell me Death before Dishonor translated to chinese. Or if not a site where to find it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest spyda151p Posted December 9, 2003 at 11:51 PM Report Share Posted December 9, 2003 at 11:51 PM forgot to metion this might be for a tattoo. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Jessica Posted December 10, 2003 at 01:36 AM Report Share Posted December 10, 2003 at 01:36 AM Death before Dishonor could be translated into 士可杀不可辱. And its pin yin version is shi ke sha bu ke ru. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
smithsgj Posted December 10, 2003 at 01:42 AM Report Share Posted December 10, 2003 at 01:42 AM Wouldn't that be "to kill is better than to be dishonoured"? The required phrase is "to die is better than to be dishonoured". Also OP might want traditional characters as it's for a tattoo. Why do people have tattoos done? Don't they look silly when you're 80 and your skin's all withered? I wonder if OP knows any Chinese or has any Chinese connection? If not, what's the point? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
roddy Posted December 10, 2003 at 01:47 AM Report Share Posted December 10, 2003 at 01:47 AM I'm just wondering when I'll get the first lawsuit from someone who isn't happy with their tattoo . . . Roddy Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Anonymous Posted December 10, 2003 at 01:57 AM Report Share Posted December 10, 2003 at 01:57 AM Wouldn't that be "to kill is better than to be dishonoured"? No, 士 (A warrior) 可殺 (can be killed) 不可辱 (But can't be insulted/dishonored) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pazu Posted December 10, 2003 at 01:58 AM Report Share Posted December 10, 2003 at 01:58 AM 士可殺不可辱 is the Traditional Chinese version which is better for calligraphy or tattoo....... You'd better find a Chinese friend to help you to make sure that the tattooer really know Chinese... it may make a difference... to your life! And you can put 士可殺不可辱 in one single line, or put a line break or space like, 士可殺 不可辱 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Anonymous Posted December 10, 2003 at 02:02 AM Report Share Posted December 10, 2003 at 02:02 AM And you can put 士可殺不可辱 in one single line, or put a line break or space like, 士可殺 不可辱 I broke it up to help smithsgj better understand that 士可殺不可辱 does indeed have the same idea as "death before dishonor" and not his version of "to kill is better than to be dishonoured". Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Quest Posted December 10, 2003 at 02:21 AM Report Share Posted December 10, 2003 at 02:21 AM or be creative: @士@ 不可辱 @殺@ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Anonymous Posted December 10, 2003 at 02:22 AM Report Share Posted December 10, 2003 at 02:22 AM or be creative:@士@ 不可辱 @殺@ That actually looks pretty neat. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
smithsgj Posted December 10, 2003 at 02:40 AM Report Share Posted December 10, 2003 at 02:40 AM > No, 士 (A warrior) 可殺 (can be killed) 不可辱 (But can't be insulted/dishonored) Thanks for setting me right. Another good example of English passives and their Chinese equivalents. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Anonymous Posted December 10, 2003 at 02:42 AM Report Share Posted December 10, 2003 at 02:42 AM > No' date=' 士 (A warrior) 可殺 (can be killed) 不可辱 (But can't be insulted/dishonored)Thanks for setting me right. Another good example of English passives and their Chinese equivalents.[/quote'] Actually now I look at it, it seems a little strange to me and understand how you could be confused. In modern Chinese, wouldn't it be: 士 可被殺 不可被辱 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pazu Posted December 10, 2003 at 06:40 AM Report Share Posted December 10, 2003 at 06:40 AM Kulong, in my opinion, it shouldn't be "被xxx" even in modern Chinese. I think the passive form of "被" is just overly used and many occasions you will find this word not necessary. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Anonymous Posted December 10, 2003 at 06:52 AM Report Share Posted December 10, 2003 at 06:52 AM Kulong, in my opinion, it shouldn't be "被xxx" even in modern Chinese. I think the passive form of "被" is just overly used and many occasions you will find this word not necessary. It's true that in many occasions 被 isn't necessary. When I first read the sentence "士可被殺不可被辱" I immediately grasped the intended meaning. However, after reading it a couple times, I can see how smithsgj, or anyone else, could misunderstand. 你可以來 - We all know that this sentence means "you can come". But both 你可以來 and 士可殺 are noun/pronoun 可／可以 verb, why does the former mean the noun can execute the verb while the latter means the verb is being done to the noun? However, if you add a 被 to 士可殺 and make it into 士可被殺, it's very clear that it means the warrior can be killed and not a warrior can kill. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
smithsgj Posted December 10, 2003 at 08:23 AM Report Share Posted December 10, 2003 at 08:23 AM a) Bacon cooks very quickly. B) He cooks very quickly. I think (a) is an ergative or unaccusative structure. This sort of thing is much more common in Chinese than English, because of the more flexible thematic structure (also called argument structure) of Chinese verbs. 被 signals the canonical passive voice (if it can really be said that there is such a thing as a passive voice, or any distinction of voice at all, in Chinese). But there are other ways of switching the agent ("subject") and patient ("object") thematic roles of a verb. And one of them is... nothing at all, no overt marker. There's no doubt that 被 is overused in some sense (I say that, even though I believe strongly that what is "right" in language is a function of what native speakers actually say!). Remember it used to be used only to mark the "adversative" passive (having something nasty done to you, like being killed or eaten). Its usage is more general now -- and that particular change may well be borrowed from English. Some historical linguists think that it's really only *vocabulary* that gets loaned from one language to another, but 被 is often cited as evidence that this is not the case -- grammatical patterns get loaned too. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
holyman Posted December 10, 2003 at 11:17 AM Report Share Posted December 10, 2003 at 11:17 AM in modern mandarin 被 is usually for bad or unlucky things that happened to the said person/object. 受 is usually for good things. but of course there are exceptions： 过来受死 means 'come and recieve ur death'. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
skylee Posted December 10, 2003 at 01:06 PM Report Share Posted December 10, 2003 at 01:06 PM I didn't realize that "Dishonor" was "Dishonour". Am really getting old. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Quest Posted December 10, 2003 at 04:01 PM Report Share Posted December 10, 2003 at 04:01 PM in modern mandarin 被 is usually for bad or unlucky things that happened to the said person/object. 受 is usually for good things. but of course there are exceptions： 过来受死 means 'come and recieve ur death'. 被 is not a verb, 受 is a verb. they are different. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
holyman Posted December 10, 2003 at 04:46 PM Report Share Posted December 10, 2003 at 04:46 PM I didn't realize that "Dishonor" was "Dishonour". Am really getting old. diff btw brit and american english, like color and colour. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
holyman Posted December 10, 2003 at 04:57 PM Report Share Posted December 10, 2003 at 04:57 PM 被 is not a verb, 受 is a verb. they are different. 被 is a verb when u say 'cover' or 'to cover'. in other context, its different from 受 grammatically but often interchangable in terms of meaning. check the dictionary for terms like: 被捕：受到逮捕 被害：受伤害 被保护：受保护 被控：受人指控 受气：被欺负 受骗：被骗 受惊：被吓坏 受害：被杀害 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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