sinosplice Posted February 19, 2015 at 03:38 PM Report Share Posted February 19, 2015 at 03:38 PM Hi everybody! I'm John Pasden, formerly of ChinesePod and the founder of AllSet Learning in Shanghai. My team and I have created a number of Pronunciation Packs (digital downloads) designed specifically for A2 (elementary) and B1 (intermediate) learners. The contents of the packs were informed by years of client feedback, and we've tested them out on interns too (videos of that here), so we know they work. Now we ned help getting the word out better, and Roddy thoughtfully suggested I give some away to Chinese Forums users. I'm just asking for a review posted here after putting in some practice with them (ideally with a tutor). The Pronunciation Packs include instructions on how to use them effectively. I'll give out up to 10 vouchers this time. In order to be awarded a voucher to get one of these packs for free, please reply telling me: Which pack(s) you're most interested in, or just level A2 or B1, at the very least Why you're a good person to choose for this review Links to any other product you've reviewed before to show me how awesome you are at it Thanks a lot to anyone that replies, and Happy Chinese New Year! 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
edelweis Posted February 19, 2015 at 05:29 PM Report Share Posted February 19, 2015 at 05:29 PM I'm thinking that perhaps you should provide some means of comparing the user's pronunciation before and after using these packs. Perhaps some kind of standard text that people can record themselves reading? This way the reviewers can include the recording in their reviews. Or is there already this kind of feature in the packs? Edit: also, what do you call A2 and B1? Should we consult the CEFR definitions or do you have special guidelines for these? For instance, compared to new HSK, or in terms of known vocabulary, or hours of study, or ... Since there's no widely accepted CEFR level test in Chinese, I'm not sure most people really know how to distinguish A2 and B1... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PaulSav Posted February 19, 2015 at 09:22 PM Report Share Posted February 19, 2015 at 09:22 PM I just watched your intern improvement videos and have a suggestion. It would be nice to have videos showing people who initially have decent pronunciation (however you want to define that), and then show the improvement. The interns' initial pronunciation was so dramatically off that it seems like they could improve a lot with just about any type of help for six weeks. Perhaps use someone with passable pronunciation but that makes some common mistakes (say, pronouncing 日 poorly), and then see their improvement after six weeks. On a positive note, these seem like a really good idea and I'm very excited about them. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ZhiMu Posted February 19, 2015 at 11:31 PM Report Share Posted February 19, 2015 at 11:31 PM As a remote client (from Los Angeles) of AllSet Learning Shanghai and an avid user of their pronunciation packs I personally know they work well for me. I use them in the car while in traffic with the provided audio and then practice them with my native speaker partner or with native speaking friends/teachers here in Los Angeles. I'm working on editing some of my own learning progress video/audio content and hope to have it up on my blog within this life time. lostinchinese.com. One recommendation is a Male voice option. There seems to be an overwhelming lack of male voice recordings in most all Chinese learning content. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
studychinese Posted February 20, 2015 at 02:19 AM Report Share Posted February 20, 2015 at 02:19 AM Have you considered some sort of discount for the full set? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pokarface Posted February 20, 2015 at 02:26 AM Report Share Posted February 20, 2015 at 02:26 AM 1- I would pick B1 if I wasn't too busy receiving tutoring 2- how I sound when I read: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iwjgitUj3nk 2- how I sound when I sing https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=M8sYghHDPpE 3- my Assimil video review: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U2N1-a4aHb4 3-Tuttle Flashcards review: http://www.chinese-forums.com/index.php?/topic/47673-tuttle-chinese-flashcards-vol-1/#comment-361406 Well, at least I can bump the thread and get more people interested 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
imron Posted February 20, 2015 at 03:14 AM Report Share Posted February 20, 2015 at 03:14 AM @sinosplice, you should try reaching out to Mark Zuckerberg. A nice high profile Chinese learner with pronunciation that needs work. Doesn't John B. work for Facebook these days? 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OneEye Posted February 20, 2015 at 03:42 AM Report Share Posted February 20, 2015 at 03:42 AM I had this crazy thought about offering (via Outlier) to teach him Chinese characters, but then we don't have anything near the resume and connections that John Pasden/AllSet have. And who knows if he's even interested in learning to read and write. Oh well... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
carlo Posted February 20, 2015 at 04:25 AM Report Share Posted February 20, 2015 at 04:25 AM Guys, there's also Prince William, who seems to need a great deal of help at the moment. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stapler Posted February 20, 2015 at 05:13 AM Report Share Posted February 20, 2015 at 05:13 AM @imron haha thanks for that. Even though I am just a novice myself, it's a great ego boost knowing that I'm better than Mark Zuckerberg at something! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr. 愛爾蘭 Posted February 20, 2015 at 06:07 AM Report Share Posted February 20, 2015 at 06:07 AM Hi John. I've looked at your pronounciation packages page several times because I follow a lot of your work (blog, grammar wiki, mandarin companion, etc.). However, I haven't purchased any yet because there are no samples and my pronounciation is already quite good in isolation. Thus, I don't know if your product would be useful for me. I'm most interested in the B1 3rd Tone pack because I struggle with third tones, particularly when there's 3 - 4 in a row. Further, my prosody in natural speech is horrible. I've been doing the usual things: shadowing, recording myself, getting feedback from others, listening carefully to native material at full speed, etc. but I am still terrible (which isn't a surprise, since I am essentially a beginner). It would be awesome if Glossika still had his pronounciation package available for sale because then we could make a comparison between those two resources. Since that product doesn't exist, if I review one of your pronounciation packages I will keep in mind the other pronounciation resources I've used so far: textbooks, teachers, Chinesepod, your blog posts, etc. A couple suggestions:1. This page looks sketchy. It has a very generic domain-squatting look. For people who aren't well familiar with you, this could be a turn off. 2. It might be worthwhile to mention the number of Chinese words in each package and the number of pages in each pdf to give us a sense of how big or small these packages are. 3. "A PDF explanation of the various "mulitple third tone" patterns used in this Pronunciation Pack" - typo 4. An option to purchase all of the packages or maybe just packages in each level (A, B, etc.) for a discount would be cool. 5. Putting up a couple of audio files and a page from the booklets would give us a better idea of what you're selling. If you did that, I think more people would be willing to bite the bullet because I am guessing these are quality products. Maybe make this one free entirely. Good luck with these. I hope the next Mando Companion book is out soon. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Walkingtree Posted February 20, 2015 at 07:17 AM Report Share Posted February 20, 2015 at 07:17 AM Hey John! Thanks a lot for the grammar wiki, and I enjoyed listening to your Chinesepod episodes. If possible I'd like to try out the level B1 packs, specifically the third tone changes and the B1 tone changes. While most of my language partners are away blowing things up with their families this week I meet with tutors for at least 2-6 hours a week so I'll be able to give you a review sometime late next week. Here's a link to my review of HelloTalk: http://www.chinese-forums.com/index.php?/topic/47616-hellotalk-language-exchange-app/#comment-360953 Cheers and happy New Year! 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sinosplice Posted February 26, 2015 at 02:00 AM Author Report Share Posted February 26, 2015 at 02:00 AM @edelweis: It would be cool to provide before and after, but that would be a pretty massive project to do it right. The only users we can truly properly "experiment" on are our interns. We use the CEFR levels A2 and B1. The HSK doesn't correspond to these well; we go by the official CEFR descriptions of the levels. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sinosplice Posted February 26, 2015 at 02:01 AM Author Report Share Posted February 26, 2015 at 02:01 AM @PaulSav: Good point! I would love to do that, but our recent "academic interns" have been beginners. Next person that interns with a higher starting point gets to be our next guinea pig... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sinosplice Posted February 26, 2015 at 02:02 AM Author Report Share Posted February 26, 2015 at 02:02 AM @ZhiMu: Thanks a lot, man! I agree about the male option. Working on it... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sinosplice Posted February 26, 2015 at 02:03 AM Author Report Share Posted February 26, 2015 at 02:03 AM @studychinese: I've considered it, but they're already priced pretty low, and I'd like to avoid the problem of someone purchasing content multiple times (once individual, and then once in a combo) and getting upset. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sinosplice Posted February 26, 2015 at 02:08 AM Author Report Share Posted February 26, 2015 at 02:08 AM @Pokarface: Thanks for the reply! Looking at your video, I can say that your pronunciation is already quite good, and while you have a little room for improvement, you're already at the upper end of what I would recommend for the B1 packs. So you might find them a little boring because they're not challenging enough. While lower-level learners can improve a lot by simply repeatedly listening and reading, you'd probably really need a tutor to help point out an little slip-ups. If you still want to do it, you're in, though! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sinosplice Posted February 26, 2015 at 02:10 AM Author Report Share Posted February 26, 2015 at 02:10 AM @imron, I've reached out before, but apparently Zuck is busy with some website or something. I'm waiting for John B to get into Zuck's inner circle, and then BAM! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sinosplice Posted February 26, 2015 at 02:11 AM Author Report Share Posted February 26, 2015 at 02:11 AM @OneEye: if you build it they will come... (maybe) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sinosplice Posted February 26, 2015 at 02:21 AM Author Report Share Posted February 26, 2015 at 02:21 AM @Mr. 愛爾蘭: Thanks for the thoughtful replies. I find that learners that are already pretty good at pronunciation of tones in isolation can get a lot of mileage out of practicing multisyllabic words, then phrases, then those words/phrases in the context of a full sentence. Obviously, if you normally practice with super-slow pronunciation, then you also want to practice at a more normal rate of speech. On your suggestions: 1. This surprised me... Although I agree it's generic, does it really look sketchy? What would make it look less sketchy to you? 2. Good point. 3. Typo fixed. Thanks! (Sadly, I typo the word "multiple" like 90% of the time) 4. I'll keep that in mind... Since the number of packs is relatively low, I'm not sure it's worth the extra work, but I can see the value to the user. 5. Yep, agreed. (In fact, it is my plan to eventually make that "A2 Tone Changes" pack one free entirely.) The next Mandarin Companion book is honestly a bit of a nightmare (curse you Dickens!), and we've had to write the story as two books, but both will be out soon. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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