Fossilized Chinese?

[roddy]

for the chinese by default the peasants are dumb, lawless and uninformed

An extreme way of putting it, but there is certainly plenty of prejudice out there. I think things are slowly changing - there's much more awareness now of how rural poverty has subsidised the development of the cities. I did a couple of translations of related articles out of interest a while ago. here and here (offered for interest only, I don't guarantee accuracy . . .)

Roddy

[holyman]

not by 'my' default, at least thats from what i heard from the mainland chinese living in the cities. i have probably been to the countryside more than most of them. anyway if the chinese govt doesnt think in this manner why do u think they separate the peasants from other 'supposingly' 'higher' social class on many occasions?

if u have travelled on the train using the 'no seat' ticket u will understand what peasants are really like. i just hope that foreigners dont take the chance of 'coping with the peasants' a way of proving how well they can survive in china. the true peasant livestyle will always move u to tears. if one doesnt want to get a breakdown or blame himself for all the food he waste thruout his life, he better be prepared before he face the peasants.

[Quest]

anyway if the chinese govt doesnt think in this manner why do u think they separate the peasants from other 'supposingly' 'higher' social class on many occasions?

I think you might have misunderstood their intentions. In the 60s they sent people to the country side because peasants were supposedly the higher class. In the 80s, because of the government's experimentation of capitalism in the cities, it was necessary to maintain a stable environment for the cities to develop, a free flowing of migrants could have hampered the process. Now the cities are relatively more developed, and the risk of chaos is reduced, so they are letting peasants to travel to cities to work, and to bring back wealth to the hinterland. Most of the emphasis of the current government is on developing the country side, they are not trying to keep the peasants a low class. Of course, the discrimination against someone poorer than one's self is not to be denied. Many city people do despise the country folks. However, from the government's standpoint, every economic group should be helped. At least that's what I see it.

[Tsunku]

Like Quest says, there are two separate issues here, how the peasants are looked upon by the government, and how they're looked upon by the middle and upper class city dwellers.

Chinese city folk make no secret how much they despise the peasants. I've witnessed it with my own eyes. China has always been a very class conscious society, and the divisions between rich and poor are obvious and undeniable.

That doesn't mean the government has it out for the peasants. I do think the government is doing what it thinks it can to help people in the countryside attain a better standard of living. Maybe they could be doing more, but then again, the sheer numbers involved here make improving the quality of peasants lives a huge task, and there really isn't any perfect solution.

[holyman]

I think you might have misunderstood their intentions. In the 60s they sent people to the country side because peasants were supposedly the higher class. In the 80s, because of the government's experimentation of capitalism in the cities, it was necessary to maintain a stable environment for the cities to develop, a free flowing of migrants could have hampered the process.

strongly disagree. please, thats the official statement u are repeating. the restriction on peasants migrating to cities actually existed long b4 the 80's, and the true reason why they sent ppl to the countryside is not bcos the peasants are the supposingly higher class(officially it was put that way). for obvious reasons i will not explain further. but i wouldnt disagree that the present govt is trying to do something good for the peasants, relieving their hardships and solving their problems etc.

[Ian_Lee]

There are plenty of terminologies that existed in Tang and Sung Dynasty which are still under usage in modern day Japanese and Korean.

For instance, the term station in Japan is "eki" (my computer cannot write Kanji) -- was prevalent in Tang and Sung literature but now abandoned in modern day Chinese.

The other Japanese term like "boku" which means myself (in humble term) is frequently found in novel like "Water Margin" which depicted events in Sung Dynasty.

In Korea, the administrative region "Kyongki Do" is the capital district where Seoul is located. The Hangmun "Kyongki" means capital's vicinity. It is usually found in classical Chinese while seldom used in modern day Chinese.

[Ian_Lee]

In fact, there are more similarites between Cantonese and Korean/Japanese than between Mandarin and Korean/Japanese.

The most obvious example is the term "Teacher".

In Mandarin, it is "Lao Shi" -- the older respectable folk.

In Cantonese, it is "Sin Sang" -- the one who is born earlier.

In Japanese, it is "sensei" -- same writing with Cantonese.

In Korean, it is "Song Saeng" -- same writing with Cantonese.

[Quest]

but Cantonese Lo Si is used just as often to address teachers.

[skylee]

eki - 駅 (Japanese) (驛, pronounced as "yeok" in korean, this word can be used in Chinese as in 驛站)

boku - 僕 (also "ore" in Japanese - 俺)

Kyongki-do - 京畿道

[smithsgj]

In Taiwan the Mandarin equivalent of sensei etc, xiansheng, can be used to address (e.g. a letter) to a teacher, even when the teacher is a woman (the word normally means Sir or Mr, for anyone who didn't know).

I'm saying that the same word means teacher in Mandarin too.

[roddy]

I'm saying that the same word means teacher in Mandarin too

I've never heard it used to mean 'teacher' - it's always been 老师. I think I've read it in some older short stories though.

Roddy

[ala]

What's 藥房 mean, and where? It came up as the suggested next character after I typed 藥 ... perhaps it's the pharmacy in a hospital

in Shanghainese, 藥房 just means any traditional pharmacy. There is now a tendency in Shanghainese to see 藥店 as an equivalent to Walgreens. 藥房 sells medicine (prescription and over-counter); and 藥店 sells medicine and coke, paper, cosmetics, personal hygiene, etc.

[Guest Gundaliro]

I'm saying that the same word means teacher in Mandarin too

I've never heard it used to mean 'teacher' - it's always been 老师. I think I've read it in some older short stories though.

Roddy

It's used in Cantonese to refer to teachers -- at least it was, when I went to Chinese school.