Silent Posted June 17, 2015 at 11:21 PM Report Share Posted June 17, 2015 at 11:21 PM Assuming the qualifications I've established, they are most likely unaware. Without doubt many are fooled, but I firmly believe that the large majority is well aware of what is happening but consciously ignore/deny it. Some even unable to withstand the temptation of services provided. When unable to resist the temptation of candy one can still be fully aware that it's unhealthy. Men really don't place a very high value on a woman's status or bank account. The vast majority couldn't care less. Maybe not so much the bank account, but they care about looks. He provides the money to get a higher standard lady. Both provide something the other wants and dropping some demands will mean you may manage to score higher on the remaining ones. In one direction only. Men break up with women for different reasons. Lack of income is rarely the reason, for men. If the girl is only about the money many men will treat her as such and ditch her after services provided. Man and women may value different things and there are no written price tags , in the end it's still a matter of value for money. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ablindwatchmaker Posted June 17, 2015 at 11:37 PM Report Share Posted June 17, 2015 at 11:37 PM Some even unable to withstand the temptation of services provided. When unable to resist the temptation of candy one can still be fully aware that it's unhealthy. I've succumbed a few times. It's not easy to withstand, that's for sure. It's easy to tell yourself it's all about fun until the attachment builds and you realize you are with a viper lol. Maybe not so much the bank account, but they care about looks. Exactly, that's what I'm saying. Completely agree. If the girl is only about the money many men will treat her as such and ditch her after services provided. Man and women may value different things and there are no written price tags , in the end it's still a matter of value for money. Couldn't have said it better myself. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post Lu Posted June 18, 2015 at 08:28 AM Popular Post Report Share Posted June 18, 2015 at 08:28 AM Ablindwatchmaker, you're now mentioning guys under 22 in connection with gold diggers. There can't be that many men in that age group who already got rich enough to attract gold diggers. The typical picture is rather an older guy with a much younger woman. I also get the impression that seeing a couple where you find the woman attractive but not the man makes you uncomfortable. That's unfortunate for you, but not all such couples consist of rich guy-gold digger. People, both men and women, are more than just their looks. Perhaps he has a great sense of humour, or understands her character, or is very smart, or stuck by her in a difficult time, or any other reason. Or perhaps he's actually a total stud but just not the kind of man you consider good-looking. Just because you don't find this or that man attractive doesn't mean that nobody ever will. Men really don't place a very high value on a woman's status or bank account. The vast majority couldn't care less.No, they place value on her looks.Although clearly some men do value a woman's background and bank account, you being one of them... The thing is, gold diggers do exist, but you can't tell at a glance who is a cold-hearted gold digger and who just has a thing for older men, or wants to date rich guys because she doesn't want a man to mooch off her, or just happened to really get along with this older rich guy, or a million other reasons. People judge, I know I do too, but perhaps we shouldn't be so quick to draw conclusions. 5 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ablindwatchmaker Posted June 18, 2015 at 05:33 PM Report Share Posted June 18, 2015 at 05:33 PM Ablindwatchmaker, you're now mentioning guys under 22 in connection with gold diggers. There can't be that many men in that age group who already got rich enough to attract gold diggers. The typical picture is rather an older guy with a much younger woman. Obviously, but you are completely missing the point. I am simply using examples that I encounter on a daily basis. Also, it is not at all unusual for young women to look at the income of one's parents, and the job prospects of the student and act accordingly. Go to any highly regarded law school or business school and observe if you have any doubts. Being a guy who is in a wealthy frat with a lake house is a completely different ball game. Perhaps he has a great sense of humour, or understands her character, or is very smart, or stuck by her in a difficult time, or any other reason. Or perhaps he's actually a total stud but just not the kind of man you consider good-looking. Just because you don't find this or that man attractive doesn't mean that nobody ever will. Well, I've never seen an example of what you are referring to, and I'd be willing to bet that neither have most of the people supporting your statement. What you have observed is a guy or a girl with either exceptional status or beauty getting their pick of the lot, which often means that OTHER traits come along with it. Also, I think human beings have a pretty solid instinctual grasp of how other human beings look, especially within a culture. Men and women alike know how to size up competition. Although clearly some men do value a woman's background and bank account, you being one of them... Really? We both know the context of the statement. The difference is profound. It has nothing to do with my sexual attraction and, in the context of having more information about their intentions, becomes wholly irrelevant. If I can choose between good looking women who come from money and good looking women who don't, and I don't know the intentions of the poor women as much as the rich, then obviously it makes sense to pick the one with money. What is more important is that I would STILL pick a good looking peasant woman over a RICH unattractive, or even average, woman. just happened to really get along with this older rich guy It's funny how the guys with "good senses of humor" and "great personalities" just happen to be loaded. I do agree that we shouldn't be quick to judge and that things are not always what they seem. In the case of young women in college, they are actually more likely to value things other than money, but by the time a guy reaches 30 his status is going to make or break him in the dating market. Time and again, I've observed friends, myself included, experience a decrease in quality over time due to a lack of sufficient achievement. They are still good looking, funny and smart, but the status just isn't there. In my experience going out, I have much better luck with women under the age of 25 than above because the older the woman gets the more she values financial stability, up to a point. At the end of the day, having high status of some sort is a hell of a lot more important to men than women and having beauty is a hell of a lot more important to women than men. All of this other stuff is incidental. We define women who are focused on status and income to the exclusion of everything else as gold diggers, and we define men who only sleep around with attractive women to the exclusion of everything else as assholes. I'm not sure why any of the statements I'm making create so much controversy. I make statements that people can readily confirm for themselves by observation or research, and I get demonized for it. I haven't insulted anyone on here. In fact, I think I have been attacked first every single time I've posted something that pertains to these kinds of topics. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
陳德聰 Posted June 18, 2015 at 07:59 PM Report Share Posted June 18, 2015 at 07:59 PM From your description of the trend you have found yourself in, it sounds like you're a gold digger. Ladies, better watch out. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ablindwatchmaker Posted June 18, 2015 at 08:39 PM Report Share Posted June 18, 2015 at 08:39 PM 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
imron Posted June 18, 2015 at 10:35 PM Report Share Posted June 18, 2015 at 10:35 PM What is more important is that I would STILL pick a good looking peasant woman over a RICH unattractive, or even average, woman. and we define men who only sleep around with attractive women to the exclusion of everything else as assholes. Not sure how you reconcile those two statements with regards to yourself I'm not sure why any of the statements I'm making create so much controversy. For me, it's not the controversy, it's the apparent lack of self-awareness. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ablindwatchmaker Posted June 18, 2015 at 11:19 PM Report Share Posted June 18, 2015 at 11:19 PM Not sure how you reconcile those two statements with regards to yourself Quite easily, actually. The assumption is that one meets the threshold of attractiveness, for me, and one doesn't. Assume you have two dating prospects who are highly attractive, but one of them is more attractive than the other. If the less attractive one has other traits that I appreciate and these traits are lacking in the more attractive one, then I will pick the less attractive one. The point I was making is that men have thresholds, as do women. If those aren't met then the other traits don't change the equation; however, if the threshold is met the other traits take on considerable importance. Human beings subconsciously make these calculations all the time, and these are all things that should have been assumed. For me, it's not the controversy, it's the apparent lack of self-awareness. Reading between the lines and giving me a fair shake should have revealed precisely what I meant, as stated above. The desire to pigeonhole me is the reason people are having such an issue. In the past we have clashed on topics that pertain to political issues, and I suspect there are irreconcilable ideological differences underlying the conflict. That being said, I enjoy being on this forum and have obtained a great deal of good advice and information that has been helpful to me, especially from you. If I am bothering people with any statements that I make, notify me in a PM so I can adjust accordingly. I honestly enjoy the conversations I have on here, even the points of contention, but the last thing I want is to create problems. Given the fact that most of the people on here seem to have differing opinions about a lot of things, it might be best if I just stick to topics pertaining to the Chinese language and let everyone else explore the more controversial topics that occasionally stem from language learning posts. At the end of the day, social harmony is more important than hashing out ideological differences, at least coming from my position. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
roddy Posted June 19, 2015 at 08:32 AM Report Share Posted June 19, 2015 at 08:32 AM "it might be best if I just stick to topics pertaining to the Chinese language" I wonder how much it would cost me to have the entire membership tattoo that on their forearms... 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Simon_CH Posted June 23, 2015 at 06:13 AM Report Share Posted June 23, 2015 at 06:13 AM Well at least it makes for an entertaining discussion. A member mentioned the importance of a similar (financial) outlook in life, and I agree. In a serious relationship it does matter a lot more what your attitudes are towards financial goals, savings, spending, consumption than how much you actually make. I would probably not seriously date someone who a) doesn't have a solid job/income and b) spends a lot of money on stuff she doesn't need. So even for me as a guy, money kind of matters and I prefer to be in more equal relationships financially as well as otherwise. Just like ablindwatchmaker I have actually only ever dated Chinese women that are relatively well-off, whether because of their parents or their jobs. That wasn't so much a deliberate choice on my part but has more to do with my social circles or places I meet people I guess. Actually where would one meet women from vastly different socio-economic backgrounds? I honestly wouldn't know how to go about it even if I did want that. Slightly tongue-in-cheek but I hope you get what I mean. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lu Posted June 23, 2015 at 09:05 AM Report Share Posted June 23, 2015 at 09:05 AM Actually where would one meet women from vastly different socio-economic backgrounds?Pretty much anywhere. The lady on your side of the bar is of a different socio-economic background than the lady on the other side, the woman serving you dinner has a different income from the woman you're having dinner with, and then there are the cleaning ladies or coffee ladies at work, the people living in the basements of big apartment buildings, etc etc. Even your direct colleagues will often be paid less than you and/or have poorer parents. If you want to meet on equal footing, try the bus, metro or train. I remember a foreign woman online (forgot if it was here or on a blog) talking about her relationship with a security guard. Granted it will be harder to meet farmers or factory girls if you're not near farms/factories, but there's a wide array of socio-economic backgrounds in all cities. But I agree that a similar outlook on income and spending is a good thing to have in a relationship. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Silent Posted June 23, 2015 at 10:00 AM Report Share Posted June 23, 2015 at 10:00 AM Pretty much anywhere. I agree you can meet them anywhere. Nevertheless the places where real interaction occurs contain generally people with in some extent similar backgrounds. E.g. an upmarket cocktail bar and a a cheap boozebar attract different kind of people. Even purely interest based activities tend to attract people of a certain socio economic background. The people attracted to tennis or sailing are different from those attracted to cockfighting and pingpong. In reality there is a lot of segregation, more then you might expect at first sight for all kind of different reasons. But I agree, if you want to it's fairly easy to meet people with other socioeconomic backgrounds. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Simon_CH Posted June 24, 2015 at 02:08 AM Report Share Posted June 24, 2015 at 02:08 AM That's exactly what I was hinting at Silent. Of course I could try to chat up the cashier at the super market with my terrible Chinese, or talk with someone in the metro, but the reality is still as you say that in all my work and free time activities where real interaction takes place I am surrounded by people of roughly the same socio-economic background. Differences are just much bigger here than in more egalitarian societies and people tend to stick to their own 'class' if you like, especially in Chinese-Chinese dating/marriages. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Messidor Posted June 24, 2015 at 07:08 AM Report Share Posted June 24, 2015 at 07:08 AM This gets at the essence of the distinction. If you are living in a rich country, have average to above average income, your partner is in the same range, and this is a deal breaker for you, then I would consider that gold digging no matter where you are. Gold digging is at its most obvious when a woman is dating someone who is WAY below her level in physical attractiveness. I will say that I do see this among Asian women, in America as well I agree. The difference of appearance of a couple is often the foremost trace (reason) that people will grasp for judgments. And stereotypes (if someone acquired them) will work as catalyst during the procedure. The thing is, gold diggers do exist, but you can't tell at a glance who is a cold-hearted gold digger I agree that people aren't able to give definite conclusion (he/she is/isn't a gold digger) at a simple glance. And I also agree that their judgments are not totally nonsense. It's a continuum----there're stereotypes to one end and there are insights of human relationship to the other----not all Asian women married to white guys are gold diggers, and an poor and attractive young lady married to a paralysed old rich man is more likely a gold digger. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Messidor Posted June 24, 2015 at 07:15 AM Report Share Posted June 24, 2015 at 07:15 AM I agree you can meet them anywhere. Nevertheless the places where real interaction occurs contain generally people with in some extent similar backgrounds. E.g. an upmarket cocktail bar and a a cheap boozebar attract different kind of people. Even purely interest based activities tend to attract people of a certain socio economic background. The people attracted to tennis or sailing are different from those attracted to cockfighting and pingpong. In reality there is a lot of segregation, more then you might expect at first sight for all kind of different reasons. But I agree, if you want to it's fairly easy to meet people with other socioeconomic backgrounds. It reminds me of Pierre Bourdieu Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
geraldc Posted June 24, 2015 at 10:08 AM Report Share Posted June 24, 2015 at 10:08 AM Chinese are literally the world's best gold diggers http://www.mining-technology.com/features/feature-ten-largest-gold-producing-countries-china/ https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gold_mining_in_China 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
anonymoose Posted June 24, 2015 at 10:34 AM Report Share Posted June 24, 2015 at 10:34 AM But I bet less than 1% of them are women. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
geraldc Posted June 24, 2015 at 10:39 AM Report Share Posted June 24, 2015 at 10:39 AM Ironically Chinese women are banned from studying mining at degree level in China http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-asia-24534782 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lu Posted June 24, 2015 at 11:49 AM Report Share Posted June 24, 2015 at 11:49 AM So hardly any Chinese women are golddiggers, but the ones that are, are not very highly-educated golddiggers. Glad we could clear that up! 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
imtanuki Posted October 4, 2015 at 07:09 PM Report Share Posted October 4, 2015 at 07:09 PM There is a huge difference between marrying someone who is responsible (financially and otherwise) and being a gold digger. When your primary objective in a relationship is financial, at the expense of an emotional connection, then I think what you are describing is a business transaction, rather than an emotional or romantic relationship. If both parties accept a business transaction, then I see no moral issue. But in many cases, foreigners naively believe they are entering into a genuine relationship, which is deceptive. If you think this moral judgment is unique to foreigners, please note that a lot of Chinese men don't particularly like being used for their money. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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