China's Left Behind Children

[刘慧婷]

Hey everyone,

 

Yesterday the Australian news reported on China's left behind children where millions of children are left in the rural countryside with or without their grandparents to care for them while their parents go to work in the city and earn money to support their family financially. Some of these children don't get to see their parents for years so this really impacts them emotionally and psychologically.

It got me asking about other courses of action that parents and the Chinese government can take to put a stop to or limit the number of children experiencing this. I get that the government has to limit the population in big cities and parents want to seek a better life for their children but is there a better way to do that? Do you think the hukou is effective or should it be replaced and if yes, with what kind of system? What do you think needs to change in Chinese society for the government and citizens to adopt a new approach? How do other highly-populated countries manage this kind of situation and has that been effective? 

 

I'm not trying to stir up any heated arguments but I'm genuinely curious about the ideas floating around people's minds.

 

If you're interested in the article you can click on the link here: http://www.abc.net.au/news/2016-09-06/millions-of-chinas-children-left-behind/7816010?pfmredir=sm

[Shelley]

The only real solution is to make staying at home financially viable, and for parents to want to stay for their children.

 

It happened in England to some extent during the industrial revolution, parents went to the big cities and towns to work leaving their kids behind with grandparents. The situation resolved itself with time and the desire of families to want to be together.

 

I think over time it will get better as the jobs and money seep out to the countryside.

 

Beijing has factories right in the city, these need moving for the sake of the health of the people to decrease air and water pollution, so if and when they move the people will move back.

 

I don't think there is one solution for this. It will change in it own good time.

[abcdefg]

It's a very tough situation. I hope the alarming figures given in the article are not accurate. No way of knowing of course.

 

If a third of the 61 million "left behind" children actually do turn to crime and another third become entangled in China's shabby and rudimentary mental health system, it is bound to have a large impact on the state of the nation.

 

Not sure I know what to do to help.

[刘慧婷]

Thanks for your replies.

 

It sounds like all we can do it wait to see what happens

[Demonic_Duck]

I think over time it will get better as the jobs and money seep out to the countryside.

What's the mechanism for that to actually happen though? It certainly doesn't seem to be happening at the moment.

[Shelley]

What's the mechanism for that to actually happen though?

 

Its a combination of many things, but mainly decentralise. Beijing has factories in the city, you don't find that too much elsewhere, all the heavy manufacturing, power stations, etc need to move out of the city to improve air pollution, when these move the people will move with it, the places the factories move to will probably have more scope to allow families to live together.

 

The actual mechanism for it to happen is probably a decision from government to improve the situation and instigates the decentralisation by implementing laws.

 

It certainly doesn't seem to be happening at the moment.

 

No it doesn't, and it probably won't happen for many years.

 

In the mean time people can help these children with education and some where decent to live safely.

 

Maybe someone who cares deeply about it will start a charity or something and make a difference to these children's lives.

 

This is just my opinion from the information I have about this subject, I have no concrete answers to all of this.

[abcdefg]

Maybe someone who cares deeply about it will start a charity or something and make a difference to these children's lives.

 

A couple of years ago I spent two days and two nights with a dynamic young Chinese couple who were executives in a Non-Governmental Organization trying to improve elementary education among children in remote parts of Yunnan. Several of us were staying together at a tea farm in the south part of the province during early spring harvest.

 

Over the course of that short time, while drinking tea, having a meal, walking in the hills, working with the new crop and so on, they gave me a small glimpse of the challenges they face. Before that I knew next to nothing about the scope of the problem, and I admit to still not knowing much.

 

They were not specifically trying to address the problem of rural children with absent parents, but what they had found in trying to help these kids develop had a lot to do with that in the end. Their team had to function somewhat like social workers, trying to make sure the kids were properly clothed and fed before they could even think about teaching them reading, writing, and arithmetic.

 

They often had to arrange basic medical care for the kids: get them treated for anemia, worms and lice; arrange dental work, buy glasses. Their staff periodically visited the homes, hoping to convince the elders that leaving the kids in school was better than pulling them out to work as juvenile farm hands.

 

They found that the standard mechanisms in place for recruiting and retaining teachers in impoverished villages was inadequate. Their NGO and its backing foundation were trying to supplement salaries and improve living conditions of front-line teaching staff.

 

These village teachers were real modern day heroes, often serving as role models and kind of like parents, in loco parentis. The NGO met with tons of red tape and obstacles that they had not anticipated. They were routinely viewed with suspicion for months or even longer until locals were convinced they were legitimate.

 

They had to navigate fiefdoms, political rivalries, and petty jealousies. They had to keep a fairly low profile and hope not to be perceived as reformers or troublemakers by the authorities.

 

I asked if they needed money, thinking I might even donate. They said money was not the main problem; they had been fortunate in securing several rich and generous sponsors. The hardest struggle was cutting through red tape that seemed intent on keeping the status quo from improving very much.

 

They also were plagued by corruption at every turn. If they sent X amount of money to school Y to pay for more nutritious lunches, half of it might just disappear into the principal's pocket unless they had a "disbursement officer" personally go along to be sure it was spent as intended.

 

I admired their dedication and left with heightened respect for the complexity and magnitude of such an undertaking. It seemed even more obvious than it had before that simple solutions were not enough, nor was just waiting for time to somehow magically heal all.

[Shelley]

Thank you for that abcdefg, as I suspected my limited knowledge is not adequate enough to make any real suggestions how to change things, only as I might imagine it could be changed.

 

The things you highlighted I think are true of many places, the charity workers, do-gooders are viewed with suspicion, they can even get into trouble with local authorities who don't understand what they trying to do or be used as political pawns, the money, food and equipment doesn't go where it should, and the ones who suffer almost always seems to be the children. I have noticed all over the world, that quite often the children are starving but strangely enough the parents don't seem to be.

 

I don't expect time to heal all, I hope time will give people the chance to change things and with the natural evolution of cities and people, things will improve.

[Lu]

While I admire the work of NGO's like the one Abc tells about, I loathe that a more-and-more-developed nation like China allows the situation to get to a point where such an NGO is needed. I don't believe China lacks the money to de-lice its children and make sure there's a basic level of education in every village. If there is some political advantage to be gained, the government manages to get policies implemented all the way to the lowest level. So it's all about incentives, and apparently the Chinese government just doesn't care enough. The children deserve care and education and everything, but the Chinese government really doesn't deserve the energy of people like that NGO couple. They're picking up the slack for their own government, the government should be ashamed. (And they are ashamed of course, which is why such people sometimes get in trouble.)

[abcdefg]

I'm not an apologist for the Chinese government, but feel it's only fair to point out that the NGO with which that couple was associated had targeted villages in the poorest and most "left behind" parts of Yunnan. These backward pockets were mostly in the border regions far to the west and deep in the south, adjacent to Burma and Vietnam. These same regions have pressing issues with illegal drugs and with AIDS.

 

From what I've read, Yunnan is one of China's poorest provinces. Some of Yunnan's minority regions are the poorest of the poor. The officials in charge are trying to stimulate Yunnan's economy by turning it into a regional trade hub and transportation link between China and southeast Asia. They are promoting several ambitious economic development schemes.

 

The couple tried to explain how recent legislation had actually improved the elementary school situation and they thought that more positive changes were in the wind. That discussion went fast and I missed a lot by virtue of my language skills not being up to the task. But I did understand that they hoped these rudimentary services of their foundation would be less and less necessary as time passed.

 

The lady had a background in public relations and human resources, while her husband had a background in computing and information technology. They hoped that eventually they could focus on more advanced things like teaching village kids how to use computers and interact with the outside world using the internet. They wanted to see the children become able to compete for better jobs as they grow up.

[li3wei1]

Are these two separate problems? On the face of it, I don't see kids raised by the grandparents as a huge problem. They're relatives who love you, and have some experience with children. The lice and similar problems in Yunnan are not presumably caused by the fact that kids are being raised by their grandparents, but by poverty. Kids in the same village being raised by their parents will probably face the same problems, if not more so because they don't have someone working in a faraway city sending back paychecks.

 

I had a friend in Hong Kong who handed her kids to her parents every Monday morning, and got them back Friday night, because she and her husband both had jobs with long hours. Her kids seem to be fine. Not saying I would do the same, or that they were extremely happy to do this, but many people in the west have childcare arrangements (or boarding schools) that are only marginally different. Kids need (apart from food etc.) affection, attention, and consistency. Grandparents can provide this.

[realmayo]

I loathe that a more-and-more-developed nation like China allows the situation to get to a point where such an NGO is needed

 

Arguably the same would be true in say a UK context about any charities which operate to help people in the UK. My understanding is that Beijing is indeed throwing money at poor western areas but that Beijing has limited ability to micromanage; indeed, China is one of the world's most devolved nations and as orders travel from the centre down the foodchain from national government all the way down to village administration, the control from the centre weakens.

 

So, money for lice might have been available but appropriated by a local official, or spent on something else. I recently read Patronage and Power: Local State Networks and Party-State Resilience in Rural China which suggested that when it comes to charity in poor western areas, money itself isn't a big deal: " 'these days if a school needs to be built, the government can easily find the money. So if a NGO wants to fund a school construction project, we can use this money for something else." '

 

So in terms of abcdefg's NGO couple, perhaps their most vital contribution is the application of their own time, effort and knowledge.

[abcdefg]

Like Li3Wei1, I really admire these devoted grandparents who raise their grandchildren with such care and love. I've talked to so many young Chinese, in their 20's and 30's, urban and rural, who fondly remember and honor those important relatives. From simple things like, "Nobody could ever cook as well as Grandma" to other lasting influences on the way they approach life.

 

Patronage and Power: Local State Networks and Party-State Resilience in Rural China

 

That sounds like an extremely interesting book, Realmayo. Wish it were available for Kindle. Just wondering, was it easy to read or was it a dry and scholarly grind? The author sounds extremely knowledgeable.

 

Hillman finds that the lower down the administrative ladder—prefecture, county, township, village—authority fragments and turns into complex, informal patronage networks, often based on kin and chums, that both collect and distribute spoils . . .

 

(This is a quote from an Amazon review.) 

[realmayo]

I guess the book is a little bit dry but I find the subject matter so interesting that it wasn't much of a grind to get through at all.

[abcdefg]

Sounds good. I'll buy a copy of it when I return to the US (in a few weeks.) Thanks.

[Angelina]

Unfortunately, it is too difficult for many people to survive and raise children, living costs are high, we can barely feed ourselves. Unlike other parts of the world where people usually decide not to have children or to postpone having children, I have noticed how many families in China are trying really hard to take care of their children. 

Maybe governments should stop making it difficult for us to survive. Not sure if the Chinese way (where children barely know their parents and they are being raised by grandparents) or the European way (don't have children or wait until you are 40) is better, but this is not a Chinese problem. 

[stapler]

"Hillman finds that the lower down the administrative ladder—prefecture, county, township, village—authority fragments and turns into complex, informal patronage networks, often based on kin and chums, that both collect and distribute spoils . . "

 

This reminds me of a village I was in. The villagers had built their own primitive aqueduct system to bring fresh water down from a nearby mountain but wanted to develop something more sophisticated which they needed government assistance for. Now apparently the government officials have to go "spend time" in the villages every year. Rather than this being an opportunity to learn about what's going on in their domain the government officials seem to use this as an opportunity to exercise their power and get their egos stroked. This particular year the officials stayed over in this village. The villagers went all out to host them. Big banquet, let them sleep in their finest beds, lots of baijiu etc. Because it was a success the government officials gave them 20,000 rmb for some new aqueducts. Strangely, the villagers were quite proud of this success and didn't seem that bothered by the fact that they basically had to bribe the government to get services which should have legally been theirs anyway. I think there's a broader question about patronage style relationships across all of Chinese society in general that is related to this, but that's a whole other topic. Anyway this kind of thing is quite routine I think. For example I think I wrote something elsewhere about another village and its lack of garbage collection because they hadn't managed to impress the government officials into distributing some of their largesse.

 

And on the main topic: in my own limited experience, leaving kids with grandparents seems preferable for most people than moving them to the city. Bringing the kids to the city just leads to them being discriminated against and bullied in schools by city kids (if they can afford it), and some parents I met believe that growing up in the village was safer/healthier than keeping them at the 工地 or the factory residences. In particular child rape is a serious concern. Lots of drunk single men in those environments with little policing. Someone once described to me how her parents had built a special room near to their own at a construction site with lots of locks etc. and how she was terrified each night of all the men walking around with bloodshot eyes. Eventually the parents sent her and her brother back to the village.

 

Usually the 農民 who work in the cities who have brought their kids along also have a large amount of the extended family there as well. As a family group a few aunts (sometimes older uncles) will be dedicated to stay and look after the kids and do the cooking while the rest of the family works. This seems a bit safer than the lone working couple and a good way to keep the kids around. But again, often the kids have to sent back to the village to attend school. And maybe this is the biggest problem. The quality of the education for the kids who stay behind in the village is supremely inferior to the 縣/市 and even 村 kids. The difference between the village educated and the others is quite dramatic. The former are always borderline illiterate and the grandparents are almost always incapable of raising helping them, with regards to both education and even more basic life skills (anything besides peeling vegetables and mincing meat).

 

How does the government fix this? Give 農民 children full access to subsidised schooling and healthcare in the places their parents are working would be a good start.

[Angelina]

The quality of the education for the kids who stay behind in the village is supremely inferior to the 縣/市 and even 村 kids. The difference between the village educated and the others is quite dramatic. The former are always borderline illiterate and the grandparents are almost always incapable of raising helping them, with regards to both education and even more basic life skills (anything besides peeling vegetables and mincing meat).

 

How does the government fix this? Give 農民 children full access to subsidised schooling and healthcare in the places their parents are working would be a good start.

 

Do citizens of the places where parents are working want to share their resources? I think they should, but it won't be nice to make decisions for them. It looks like guest workers are accepted because of labour demands, but is there any interest in social inclusion? 

 

How does urban planning happen in China? Maybe it is better to increase the number of good quality schools (as in: we have more people, let's build more schools) in urban centers instead of trying to build schools for the underprivileged. I am not sure if I would want to attend a school built in let's say Shanghai, for the purpose of educating immigrant children, even if the school offered high quality instruction, it would probably make me lose face in front of other kids. 

[thinkpanda]

中国是有户口制度的，没户口不能在城里上学。

北京上海的户口都很金贵，号称一个户口能值百万人民币。

户口和买房教育都挂钩，浙江省户口不能在江苏省高考，湖南省户口不能在上海买房（结婚了以家庭为单位买房，还得持续纳税五年才能符合条件，说白了就是限制外地人定居和抢占各种资源，属于地方保护主义的一种）。

 

There is a registered permanent residence system in mainland china ,wei call it HUKOU(户口) ,in chinese.

A child without HUKOU of the city that his/her parents work in cannot or can barely attend school .

HUKOU of Beijing or Shanghai is so valuable that each can be equal to  over one millian RMB (in some people's value system).

HUKOU is linked to purchasing real estate and kid's education.

For example , kids with Zhejiang HUKOU  cannot attend college entrance examination in Jiangsu, people with Hunan HUKOU  can hardly purchase any real estate in Shanghai(a kind of regional protectionism).

 

所以你们可以理解成中国大陆其实是UPC - united provinces of china

 内地的乡下小孩，到了沿海地区的城市普遍无法上学，城里诱惑还多，估计比留守还危险。

 难说在常驻一线城市的诸位洋大人眼皮子底下犯点大事儿，友邦惊诧，纽约时报一报道，我大天朝颜面何存？

 

So you may take mainland china as UPC - united provinces of china.

Kids from the inland of china usually do not have the opportunity to attend schools in coastal cities where their parents earn a living.

Besides that , in coastal cities there are more temptations for these kids to indulge themselves, which may lead them in to the abyss of crime.

The next sentence is too tricky to translate ....

 

中国经济本身是不平衡的，就东部那么几个城市群，京津冀，长三角，珠三角，没了。

政府投资也好，外国投资也好，首先都是砸这几个主要城市群，因为砸内地很难回本儿——无论谁都要算算账吧。

你想你把钱给那些留守儿童孤寡老人，能回本儿吗..砸内地，撑死就几个省会城市而已，内地省会辐射一大批老少边穷地区，要人力没人力要资源没资源，历史上全是战乱，当地民风彪悍拒绝融入文明社会，XX族自治区啥的...

 

China's economy distribution is not balanced.

All we usually talk about are beijing-tianjin-hebei metropolitan region , Yangtze River Delta  and Pearl River Delta , nothing more.

Either government or overseas investment usually focuses in these regions rather than inland provinces.

The next sentence is too tricky and with too much sensitive info to translate ....

 

我觉得你们肯定不能是为了拯救和感化这些人来学中文的，是这个道理吧？

（除非...有人是想要传基督教...嘿嘿）

You didn't start learing chinese on purpose of civilizing those minority people , did you ?

 Unless...someone wants to do missionary work...

 

 

云南我都没去过，我也不打算去。

I've never been to Yunnan and I don't have a plan to go.

 

to be honest，my chinese-learning siblings，compared with those Yunnan minority people with lice , i feel it much easier to communicate with you guys.

at least we can understand each other only by talking in either english or mandarin....

 

 

 

[thinkpanda]

再说留守儿童问题解决之道，这事儿真不是我们在这里讨论能解决的。

 

How to solve the "left behind children" problem, is not what we can solve by discussing here.

 

 

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尤其是abcd哥，您是白人吧？您这么一位德州大爷掺和进去填什么乱...你信不信你不去，当地政府会对这个NGO少很多疑心？

你知不知道当地政府最烦什么最怕什么？

最烦最怕，无非不过你回德州写个长篇报道，中国云南地区人权问题研究...然后国际上引起轩然大波...华春莹又要出来洗地...

 

汉语博大精深，与时俱进，看懂我的贴，你们一定会更懂中国....

 

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Most parts of this post is too tricky and with too much sensitive info to translate ....