Names and Translation

[盤古]

As a side note, Richard Bush's name is translated as 卜睿哲, whereas George Bush's Bush is translated as 布希. Is it common that two people with the same name have different transliterated Chinese names?

There are usually three ways for foreigners (namely non-Japanese/Korean/Vietnamese) to get a Chinese name.

1.) Complete phonetic translation - This results in a Chinese name that sounds more accurate to the original name but end up being difficult to write and remember as foreign names tend to be much longer than Chinese names which are generally three-syllables. This category is where George W. Bush's name falls in.

2.) Partial phonetic Sinicized name - This is where a foreigner adopts or receives a Sinicized name (one syllable surname and two syllable given name) but the sound is still somewhat resembles the original name. Richard Bush's name, 卜睿哲 Bu Ruizhe, falls in this category.

3.) Completely Sinicized name - This is generally done by a foreigner's close Chinese friend or mentor. It may or may not have anything to do with his or her original name and would not appear foreign at all. In other words, it's a personalized Chinese name.

[gato]

That's a bit confusing. I propose that the Chinese keep romanized foreign names untranslated from now on. Anyone who would have an occasion to refer to these names would most likely be able to pronounce them in their original -- at least with some practice, and with no more effort than the translation process would take. I hope that would be one benefit of mass English education.

[盤古]

That's a bit confusing. I propose that the Chinese keep romanized foreign names untranslated from now on. Anyone who would have an occasion to refer to these names would most likely be able to pronounce them in their original -- at least with no more effort than the translation process would take. I hope that's at least one benefit of mass English education.

I don't see how that can be confusing, but then I was raised in Taiwan and more than used to this by now.

It doesn't make sense to keep romanized foreign names in Taiwan or mainland China as English is not widely-spoken there, nor should it be. Most people don't really care how foreigners' names are pronounced originally, as long as they know who one is referring to. It's just like although the name "China" sounds nothing like Zhongguo, we all know we're referring to the same country.

In any case, you can't expect the whole world to conform to the United States, nor should the world do so. One of the many reasons why Americans are hated so much is because you go to other countries and tell them how things should be conducted in their own country.

[gato]

It doesn't make sense to keep romanized foreign names in Taiwan or mainland China as English is not widely-spoken there, nor should it be. Most people don't really care how foreigners' names are pronounced originally, as long as they know who one is referring to.

The problem I'm thinking of is not pronunciation but communication with the outside world. If someone is only knows the Chinese transliteration of names, they would have a hard time communicating with the rest of the world.

Let me give you an example. See this article below, in which several famous Chinese writers listed their favorite works of fictions. It takes a great deal of effort to figure out who they are talking about, whereas if one had written the romanized version of the names, it'd much easier even if you've never read them.

And it's not about USA vs. everyone else. It's about the latin alphabet vs. everyone else.

http://212.diy.myrice.com/wen/book_yingxiang.html

余华：温暖的旅程《青鱼》（杜克司奈斯）、《在流放地》（卡夫卡）、《伊豆的歌女》（川端康成）、《南方》（博尔赫斯）、《傻瓜吉姆佩尔》（辛格）、《孔乙己》（鲁迅）、《礼拜二午睡时刻》（马尔克斯）、《河的第三条岸》（罗萨）、《海上扁舟》（史蒂芬·克莱恩）、《鸟》（布鲁诺·舒尔茨）

[盤古]

The problem I'm thinking of is not pronunciation but communication with the outside world. If someone is only knows the Chinese transliteration of names, they would have a hard time communicating with the rest of the world.

Let me give you an example. See this article below, in which several famous Chinese writers listed their favorite works of fictions. It takes a great deal of effort to figure out who they are talking about, whereas if one had written the romanized version of the names, it'd much easier even if you've never read them.

And it's not about USA vs. everyone else. It's about the latin alphabet vs. everyone else.

How often does an average everyday Taiwanese or Chinese have the need to communicate with the outside world about foreign names? Those who are in the fields that do communicate with the outside world about foreign names are fully aware of the romanized version, or at least they should.

Again, it's simply not an issue important enough to deserve any attention.

[roddy]

Anyone who would have an occasion to refer to these names would most likely be able to pronounce them in their original -- at least with some practice, and with no more effort than the translation process would take

I honestly don't think that's true. The appearance of the latin alphabet in texts in going to be visually jarring to a Chinese reader at the very least, and I have no doubt there are many academics who, even if they have a working reading knowledge of English, would be hardpressed to say these names out loud with any kind of recognizability. Imagine a conference of political scientists who, every time they wanted to use the name of a foreign politician, had to put their tongues into 'English mode', then revert to Chinese. Very troublesome. Plus what about say, Japanese politicians?

In any case, you can't expect the whole world to conform to the United States, nor should the world do so. One of the many reasons why Americans are hated so much is because you go to other countries and tell them how things should be conducted in their own country.

molehill, molehill, molehill mountain. Gato's making a suggestion for the Chinese language you don't agree with, he's not advocating global US hegemony. Lets not repeat history.

[in_lab]

LOL. Gato, you've got to be more careful about making suggestions that infringe on the sovereign nation of Taiwan. Er, the semi-sovereign unofficial nation of Taiwan.

I just read a Japanese book translated into Chinese, and many of the Japanese names were given in Romanji in parentheses. I'm not sure how useful it is to Chinese readers, but it was nice for me.

I say, keep the Chinese transliterations for the majority of people who can't pronounce the foreign word corectly, but leave the person's name in the original language, in a footnote or parentheses, if it isn't a typographic challenge. This makes it easier for the reader to find more information about that person. You can't expect Chinese transliterations to be completely consistent.