Modified Hanyu Pinyin

[shibo77]

I don't usually start threads, so here it is:

I read the two threads about Pinyin in Taiwan, and Latinxua, which got me excited. But the more I thought about modifying Hanyu Pinyin, the more difficult it seemed to be.

The goal is to invent a romanisation system that would use be the easiest, yet the most accurate, doesn't use any diacritical marks, thus being easy to type on a computer. But it seems if I want one I can't have the other.

First I would like to type out all the sounds of Chinese syllables with IPA:

VOWELS

(i2 only after Hanyu Pinyin z-, c-, s-)

(i3 only after Hanyu Pinyin zh-, ch- sh-, r-)

a ə ε o i i2 i3 u y

ia ua

uə

iε yε

ai ei uai uei

au əu iau iəu

ər

an ən in yn ian uan uən yan

aŋ əŋ iŋ uŋ yŋ iaŋ uaŋ uəŋ

SEMIVOWELS(SEMICONSONANTS)

j w

CONSONANTS

p p' m f

t t' n l

k k' x

tc tc' c (the c stands for the special symbol that I can't type)

ts ts' s

tsh tsh' sh zh (the h stands for the special comma on s and z that I can't type)

Here is my modification with accuracy being important:

VOWELS

a e ê ô i ~ ~ u ü(or v)

ia ua

ue

iê üê(or vê)

ai ei uai uei

au eu iau ieu

er

an en in ün(or vn) ian uan uen üan(or van)

aŋ eŋ iŋ uŋ üŋ(or vŋ) iaŋ uaŋ ueŋ

SEMIVOWELS(SEMICONSONANTS)

y w

CONSONANTS

b p m f

d t n l

g k h

j q x

z c s

z^ ĉ ŝ r^

(z^, r^ have the circumflex accent on top of z, r, but I could not type these)

This is complicated, because there will be several more lettres that would be difficult to type:

"a" stands for [a];

"e" stands for two sounds the usual schwa sound [ə] and when in a combination of "-ei" and "-uei", standing for [e] in [ei] and [uei]. I didn't invent a new lettre for [e] because I think it is similar enough to the usual schwa [ə] in Chinese;

"ê" stands for the sound [ε], it also occurs when a syllable is unstressed, so Hanyu Pinyin "么me" will become "么mê" in my modified version, and also occurs in the diphthongs "-iê"[iε] and "-üê"(or "vê")[yε];

"ô" stands for the sound [o] which only occurs as an interjection "哦ô" [o], "哟yô"[jo], "咯lô"[lo]. The "o" in Hanyu Pinyin's "wo", "bo", "po", "mo", "fo" all stands for a sound different from [o];

"-i" stands for but when it comes after "z-", "c-", "s-", "z^-", "ĉ-", "ŝ-", "r^-", they are unwritten. Instead they are simply written with the consonants only: "z-", "c-", "s-", "z^-", "ĉ-", "ŝ-", "r^-", and the tone is marked directly on the consonant. I didn't invent two extra "i" lettres because I think it is enough to convey the sounds by writing the consonants alone;

"u" stands for ;

"ü" stands for [y], before I thought about using no diacritical marks at all, and I thought that using the unused lettre "v" would be perfect, just like several American languages does, but I thought that it might be confusing and I have enough diacritical marks already so, I decided to keep "ü";

"-ŋ" stands for [ŋ], which is "-ng" in Hanyu Pinyin, and Hanyu Pinyin also allows for "-ŋ" but no one writes it that way. In my modified version it is written as one lettre "ŋ", so that all the sounds in Chinese with IPA are represented by a single lettre.

Some of the diphthongs and triphthongs are different from Hanyu Pinyin, because it reflects the simple vowels:

Hanyu Pinyin's: "-uo", "-ie", "-üe", "uei" and "-ui", "ao", "ou", "-iao", "iou" and "-iu", "uen" and "-un"

become: "-ue", "-iê", "-üê", always "-uei", "au", "eu", "-iau", always "-ieu", always "-uen" in my modified version;

"y" and "w" stands for [j] and [w], these only occur at the beginning of syllables, and it combines with the following vowels without changing the vowels: "叶yiê"[jiε], "月yüê"[jyε]", "为wuei"[wuei], "论luen"[luen]... ...

"er" stands for [ər], but when it denotes "R-colouring" (which means it is pronunced with an unwritten, imaginary 儿 at the end, if the 儿 is written then it is still "-er"), it is written "-r" without denoting any change to the syllable. This is the same as Hanyu Pinyin. This is because "R-colouring" varies between people, regions, and educational level.

Hanyu Pinyin's consonants "zh-", "ch-", "sh-", "r-" are written as "z^", "ĉ", "ŝ", "r^" in my modififed version. As it is with "-ng", all of the sounds would only be denoted with one single lettre rather than two. "r^" is also written with a circumflex accent because it is similar to "z^", "ĉ", "ŝ", and different from the "-r" or "er' of 儿.

"z", "c", "s", "z^", "ĉ", "ŝ", "r^", could be written by themselves which denotes a short, imaginary i sound different from the usual sound.

Last notes are that words are capitallised at the beginning of sentences, syllables combine in words with more than one syllable, and if the any following syllable in the same word begins with "a-" or "u-" then an apostrophe is added between the syllables (in my modified version ô only exist in interjections, and will never begin a following syllable in a word). I could not get rid of this problem of apostrophes, unless I separate the syllables of polysyllablic words, and this could give the idea that Chinese words are monosyllabic, so I have kept them.

My modified Hanyu Pinyin uses only one lettre to denote one sound in IPA. Each lettre corresponds with only one sound, with the single exception of "e" which usually denotes [ə], but can denote another sound [e] in "ei" and "uei". It has no contractions or changes which could be misleading, "uei" is always "uei", '对duei", "为wuei", "ieu" is always "ieu", "就jieu", "uen" is always "uen", "文wuen", "üe" is always "üe", "月yüe".

As you can see, the original Hanyu Pinyin seems alot easier than my more accurate modified version.

-Ŝ̀bué (Shìbó)

[skylee]

Would you consider modifying your goal to "doesn't use any diacritical marks"? I think that would be much more tidy and user-friendly. IMHO, the absence of these marks (save ê) is in fact a major merit of Hanyu Pinyin.

[Ken]

And if you perfect the system, then all you need to do is convince the PRC in Beijing to adopt it. There has been a rather "hot" discussion of this topic at: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Chinese_English_Language_Interchange/message/487

http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Chinese_English_Language_Interchange/message/488

I do admire your effort.

[roddy]

Brilliant stuff. Could you produce, perhaps, a Shiboyin version of say, 红楼梦 so we can see what it looks like in use?

Roddy