truicon Posted April 1, 2017 at 12:27 PM Report Share Posted April 1, 2017 at 12:27 PM Is 德行 ‘disgraceful behaviour’? This is surprising. One definition says it means ‘morality and conduct (which makes more sense if I look at each character)’. 难道 他 都 这个 德行？ This sentence means then he is always like that bad? Does 德行 sometimes have a meaning of 'morality and conduct' without being negative? Thank you! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
889 Posted April 1, 2017 at 01:45 PM Report Share Posted April 1, 2017 at 01:45 PM From Wenlin: 德行 dé-xíng n. ① morality and conduct ② moral integrity/conduct; virtue 德行/性 déxing* 〈coll./derog.〉 s.v. ① vexing; disgraceful ② 〈topo.〉 disgusting; shameful ◆n. ① affectation; mannerism ② morality and conduct Note that like 东西 and 东西, they're not quite read the same. "Topo." there means "topolect, non-Mandarin 方言." As to the asterisk, see here: https://www.chinese-forums.com/forums/topic/8664-entry-markings-in-wenlin/ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Publius Posted April 1, 2017 at 01:57 PM Report Share Posted April 1, 2017 at 01:57 PM 德行 when read de2xing2, is positive: 'morality and conduct'. 道德品行。 《易‧節》：“君子以制數度，議德行。” 孔穎達疏：“德行謂人才堪任之優劣。” 《孟子‧公孫丑上》：“宰我、子貢善為說辭；冉牛、閔子、顏淵善言德行。” 晉葛洪《抱樸子‧循本》：“德行文學者，君子之本也。” 宋王安石《上仁宗皇帝言事書》：“朝廷禮樂刑政之事皆在於學，士所觀而習者，皆先王之法言德行治天下之意。” 《紅樓夢》第九二回：“賈政道：‘雖無刁鑽刻薄的，卻沒有德行才情。白白的衣租食稅，那裏當得起？’” 巴金《寒夜》二六：“她雖然自誇學問如何，德行如何，可是到了五十高齡，卻還來做一個二等老媽，做飯、洗衣服、打掃房屋，哪一樣她做得出色！” ——《漢語大詞典》 德行 when read de2xing5, is negative: 'revolting behavior'. This sense is dialectal and colloquial. 原是道德、品行之意，“行”不读轻声，旧读是去声。读轻声是骂人的话，或指其丑恶外表，或指其不端行为。如： “也不照照镜子，瞧瞧自己那份德行！” “就冲(chòng)他平日的德行，大伙儿也不会选他呀！” “真德行，咱们躲开他！” "德行！谁理你！" 前两例是名词，后两例，用为形容词。 ——《北京土语辞典》 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
truicon Posted April 1, 2017 at 02:36 PM Author Report Share Posted April 1, 2017 at 02:36 PM Such helpful replies! Thank you so very much! Really, really interesting. Thank you both! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michaelyus Posted April 14, 2017 at 04:54 PM Report Share Posted April 14, 2017 at 04:54 PM This conversion of praiseworthy terms into insults has been happening for a while: here's some anecdotal evidence from LanguageLog: http://languagelog.ldc.upenn.edu/nll/?p=8261 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Publius Posted April 15, 2017 at 06:01 AM Report Share Posted April 15, 2017 at 06:01 AM Yes, it's nothing new. The shift of sense from complimentary to derogatory is largely due to the sarcastic use. In standard Mandarin the second person pronoun 您 is meant to show respect. But it can be used sarcastically too. The effect is like "You, sir, are ...." Another example is the expression 德艺双馨. It's now so closely associated with a former Japanese AV star, if you use it on anyone else it would feel comical if not outright insulting. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
somethingfunny Posted April 15, 2017 at 10:53 AM Report Share Posted April 15, 2017 at 10:53 AM I always use 您 sarcastically. In fact, I can't think of a time I've ever used it sincerely. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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