Shelley Posted August 19, 2017 at 03:51 PM Report Share Posted August 19, 2017 at 03:51 PM Does anyone know why almost every photo with Chinese people in it has them showing 2 fingers in a V sign, sometimes both hands but at least one hand. It seemed to start with the younger teenagers but now I see even Grannies doing it. Its very strange and I am not sure that they might understand other connotations this gesture could have if done slightly differently in some countries. A Japanese journalist wrote a piece warning kids not to show the palm of the hand or their fingerprints could be lifted and used fraudulently. How true this is I don't know. The whole thing is sort of annoying, and I am not sure why it bugs me, but I wish they would stop it Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zbigniew Posted August 19, 2017 at 05:42 PM Report Share Posted August 19, 2017 at 05:42 PM There are numerous explanations, all or none of which may be valid. A behaviourologist might say that it gained popularity because people who are (self-)conscious that they are having their photo taken inevitably feel they are playing a passive role in an act they have little say in, and the two fingers gesture allows them to feel they too are in control to some extent. It used to irritate me slightly too, but its inoffensiveness and association with cheerfulness has made me a lot more accepting. Ultimately, some gestures catch on; that's all we can say. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shelley Posted August 19, 2017 at 06:08 PM Author Report Share Posted August 19, 2017 at 06:08 PM Thinking a bit more about and reading the link above, I think the reason it mildly irritates me is because quite often it overpowers the picture detracting from the subject. The lack of control kind of makes sense, because it distracts the viewer. I agree that it is harmless but I am not sure about the cheerfulness, why would it make you happy doing that? @Zbigniew I don't suppose I will ever fully understand but your link above helps explain it some more.Thank you. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
somethingfunny Posted August 19, 2017 at 06:28 PM Report Share Posted August 19, 2017 at 06:28 PM I do this quite often. Let's be honest, if someone is taking a picture of me on their smartphone and I do a silly gesture with my hands, its not going to detract from the subject as much as their awful photograph taking abilities. Sure, it would be a bad idea to do this in proper photoshoot, but if you're just firing off a quick photograph for a laugh then I don't see the problem. I can imagine it started because people thought it looked cute but now it is probably done almost ironically - as if people subconsciously know there is no sufficient reason for them to be taking a photograph at that particular moment, so why not give one! As for why it would make you happy - try it and maybe you'll find out. I especially recommend trying it with a big group of Chinese people, all of whom are also doing it. Also, I regularly flip it round so that I'm giving the less acceptable twin brother of the peace sign, but the way I hold my hand and the expression on my face render it inoffensive (in my mind). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shelley Posted August 19, 2017 at 07:15 PM Author Report Share Posted August 19, 2017 at 07:15 PM 43 minutes ago, somethingfunny said: less acceptable twin brother of the peace sign That's what I meant by them not understanding how if done incorrectly it could be misunderstood by some people. Don't get me wrong its not that big a deal, I just wanted to try and understand it. @somethingfunny I can't see me trying anytime soon, all the people who might take a picture of me wouldn't understand and would be confused if not actually insulted. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
abcdefg Posted August 20, 2017 at 12:17 AM Report Share Posted August 20, 2017 at 12:17 AM Seems to me that it is fading out here. Much less common than it was 5 years ago. It's no longer hip; no longer considered cute most of the time. Persists mainly among the least sophisticated element. It's yesterday's fad. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shelley Posted August 20, 2017 at 12:33 AM Author Report Share Posted August 20, 2017 at 12:33 AM Interesting, It has only really made itself apparent here in the UK recently. Perhaps it is moving across the globe as slowly fades into obscurity. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zbigniew Posted August 20, 2017 at 12:33 AM Report Share Posted August 20, 2017 at 12:33 AM 42 minutes ago, abcdefg said: Persists mainly among the least sophisticated element. It's yesterday's fad. I'd argue the truly sophisticated have, by definition, never followed fads anyway. 26 minutes ago, Shelley said: Interesting, It has only really made itself apparent here in the UK recently I'm not sure what you mean by recently. It was already prolific in the UK among the Chinese student population twenty years ago. Anyway, it all looks like a sneakily subversive sideswipe at authority to me. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Flickserve Posted August 20, 2017 at 10:01 AM Report Share Posted August 20, 2017 at 10:01 AM Possibly popularised by Sailormoon? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shelley Posted August 20, 2017 at 11:25 AM Author Report Share Posted August 20, 2017 at 11:25 AM Well, well, 20 years and I have only just noticed it. I think I need to get out more 10 hours ago, Zbigniew said: Anyway, it all looks like a sneakily subversive sideswipe at authority to me. I got that feeling too. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
abcdefg Posted August 21, 2017 at 01:40 AM Report Share Posted August 21, 2017 at 01:40 AM I met this older Chinese gent yesterday in Kunming's Green Lake Park trying to snap a selfie with his mobile phone, selfie stick cleverly held low and out of view. Said he'd been having a spot of trouble with his Instagram feed, wondered about this Great Firewall business. We talked about VPN's and I wound up buying him a bowl of rice noodles and showing him a stand where he could find Cuban cigars. Interesting guy. Wish I remembered his name. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
somethingfunny Posted August 21, 2017 at 07:19 AM Report Share Posted August 21, 2017 at 07:19 AM There's a stand that sells Cuban cigars? Are they genuine? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zeppa Posted August 21, 2017 at 07:36 AM Report Share Posted August 21, 2017 at 07:36 AM Of course it was only in the US that Cuban cigars were banned! But you knew that... I had to correct a paper written in English by German students in which they referred to 'the V sign' as a mark of success. They really didn't know about the reverse V sign either. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Publius Posted August 21, 2017 at 09:53 AM Report Share Posted August 21, 2017 at 09:53 AM 1 hour ago, Zeppa said: German students Of course they don't know. They LOST the WAR! Wikipedia confirmed my suspicion that the photo fad originated in Japan. When I was young, we occasionally stuck two fingers from behind other people's head in group photos for comic effect (rabbit ears, not the demon's horns, we don't believe in demons). That's fundamentally different from the later gesture I believe. The internet remained V sign free as far as I can remember until at least 2005. Then with the post-90s coming to a certain age, we began to see their stupid photo booth pictures everywhere - wide open eyes, pouting mouth, and the V sign. Then the smartphones and selfies. Psychologically I suppose in doing the V sign, they successfully found their group identity in being different (from their parents apparently). 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
somethingfunny Posted August 21, 2017 at 11:58 AM Report Share Posted August 21, 2017 at 11:58 AM 4 hours ago, Zeppa said: Of course it was only in the US that Cuban cigars were banned! But you knew that... Just because it isn't banned doesn't mean it is genuine! But you knew that... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zeppa Posted August 21, 2017 at 12:01 PM Report Share Posted August 21, 2017 at 12:01 PM Goodness, this seems to have been my most successful post ever. Must get back to learning Chinese. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shelley Posted August 21, 2017 at 12:24 PM Author Report Share Posted August 21, 2017 at 12:24 PM I have always been aware of the use of the V sign by Churchill and people during the war - V for victory but I also hear it was for Beethoven's 5th, the Roman number 5 being V and this piece of music was used a lot during the war as an uplifting anthem. I have also been aware of it being used as a peace symbol during the 60's and 70's. These all use it in the sort of way shown by @abcdefg picture of Churchill, the change came when it started being used as in @Publius picture. I think from all the replies and information I have learnt that it probably originated from Japanese anime. As with all fads it does seem to be waning, so I will just wait for it to subside. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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