Are you aware of the 8105 simplified Chinese characters of the PRC?

[gwr71]

My understanding is that when you have learned the basics of Grammar (and not grammer,  which I was incorrectly using a proper noun) that it is like the proverbial skeleton of a body you need meat and skin to cover it.  Learning a lot of nouns, verbs, measure words and phrases is the proverbial meat and skin over the skeleton.  I am doing both at the same time.  So when I am finished this part it would make it easier to listen and speak as I would have a vocabulary of about 15,000 words or more.  I can more easily adapt to situations when listening.   While knowledge of characters is not a good indicator of fluency however, you can't be fluent if you don't have an adequate knowledge of characters, words, phrases, measure words and verbs not to mention grammar.  It is a catch 22 thing.

[Tomsima]

1 hour ago, gwr71 said:

anymore challenges.

 

The challenge is to start a blog here so members can follow your progression over the coming years as you move closer towards your goal, to hear your reflections and share your experience with those who are contemplating the journey or don't have the time to follow the same study regime.

 

Challenge #2: why did publius pick 鍚, 荼 and 壼 to demonstrate their point?

[gwr71]

I will consider it. I don't know how to start one, the truth be told. Just like I was encouraged to write characters which I am ok now. I could seriously consider it as I didn't realize that the issue would raise so much debate.

In respect to the word grammer. it was an honest mistake which I never realized nor bothered to check.  sometimes I have the american vs English spelling issues to deal with.  

Edited December 11, 2017 at 07:44 PM by gwr71
error

[Geiko]

4 hours ago, Publius said:

Just for fun, do you know these characters? 鍚荼壼

 

What a serendipity: Last weekend I browsed my library's catalog in search of mystery novels in Chinese, and one of the options was 《密碼王朝》, by 顷刻留风. I analysed it with CTA, and although the book is fairly easy for my level (I must learn 96 words to reach 95,48% of comprehension), one of those 96 words is the expression 神荼，as in 神荼鬱壘，where 荼 is read shu1 and 壘 is lv4  

If I type the pinyin shu,  荼 doesn't even appear on the list, am I the only one with this problem? 

Oops, I've just realized, 神荼 and 鬱壘 are the names of two characters, (“神荼和鬱壘倆兄弟”）, that's why such rare words were so frequent in an otherwise easy novel! 

[realmayo]

5 hours ago, Publius said:

They just look familiar, because you already know all the components. But the meaning is hard to pin down. Even if you whip out a dictionary and learn them properly, they are so rare you will soon forget them again.

It may be hard to memorise those latter 3000 but for most foreign learners they'll come up infrequently enough to either not need learning, or will be memorable enough that they're more likely to stick in your head.

Just purely to speculate: if we say there's a 'step-up' from the more common 3k or 4k characters to characters that are less common, perhaps that 'step' feels less steep for foreign learners of Chinese, because for us memorising brand new characters, as adults has always been a somewhat unnatural, artificial process. Those feelings a native speaker gets when coming across a weird character, well we've been having those feelings since day 1. Or maybe not since day 1. But on day 20 when we discovered that the useful, sensible character 茶 has a 余 in it and this 余 is used for all kinds of characters which seem pretty bizarre and useless but who knows, perhaps 除 will be a meaningful character to me one day so why don't I try to learn it now at the same time as 茶 and 余....................

 

(I can't help thinking that continuing to talk about these rare characters will cement in the OP's mind the misunderstanding that 'there's a list of 8000 characters worth learning', but anyway.)

[Publius]

@GeikoWell 神荼鬱壘 are the Door Gods (門神).

I just checked 《辭海》. The official reading is: shēn shū yù lǜ (like 申叔玉律).

But we commoners just read it as it appears, which is: shén tú yù lěi.

These pronunciations are so unusual, they are not in 《新華字典》 or 《現代漢語詞典》 (but still in dictionaries published in Taiwan I believe).

If you use Zhuyin, 荼 will appear in the candidate list for ㄕㄨ (shu1), and 神荼鬱壘 will automatically appear if you type ㄕㄣˊ ㄕㄨ ㄩˋ ㄌㄩˋ (shen2 shu1 yu4 lv4).

[Shelley]

45 minutes ago, Geiko said:

pinyin shu,  荼 doesn't even appear

 

I thought it was tú  荼 meaning thistle, bitter or cruel amongst other similar things.

 

I could be wrong though, this is way above my usual level, but it has been interesting.

[Publius]

40 minutes ago, realmayo said:

(I can't help thinking that continuing to talk about these rare characters will cement in the OP's mind the misunderstanding that 'there's a list of 8000 characters worth learning', but anyway.)

You still believe you can change his/her mind?

[gwr71]

I won't change my mind. I am set in my old ways.

[Flickserve]

6 hours ago, gwr71 said:

I won't change my mind. I am set in my old ways.

 

I am still curious and interested to know the differences in your methodology for Chinese compared to your previous Spanish experience. 

 

I use many methods and enjoy reading at what works for some people, not for others, changes in methods, tweaks etc. 

[imron]

On 12/7/2017 at 2:33 AM, imron said:

I look forward to your update in 2 years

Over one year in, how is it going @gwr71?