Disappointment after first trip to China

[imron]

14 hours ago, Shelley said:

In the UK they are recommending putting a small stool under your feet when you use a sit on a toilet to closer mimic squatting

Like this one.

 

Anyway, yes, squatting is actually better for you, so when someone talks about 'better alternatives' it's important to realise there are multiple different definitions of what better means.

 

Personally, when in China I would always choose a squatter over a sit down.

[HuayangAcademy]

Very difficult to learn how Chinese society works in 9 days 

It is different to the West but you can't really learn too much in 9 days

 

 

[realmayo]

On 12/24/2017 at 9:08 PM, abcdefg said:

Those squid and durian pizzas I find in Kunming just aren't the same

I really hope this is an example of poetic license.

[abcdefg]

Well, it is. But just barely. 

[Lu]

On 26/12/2017 at 3:40 AM, imron said:

Personally, when in China I would always choose a squatter over a sit down.

Me too, especially when it comes to public toilets. I rather have only the soles of my shoes touch the ground than my bare upper legs touch a dirty toilet.

 

As to bidets in Europe, I live in the Netherlands and I don't remember ever seeing one here. My grandmother had a bidet functionality installed on her toilet, but that was for medical-related reasons. Perhaps they are common in France, as someone said, but Europe is a big place with many cultures.

[Kherith]

That's a very long complaint for someone who stayed 9 days in TWO cities of one of the biggest countries in the world.
WHERE I LIVE :

1. People wash their hands with soap after going to the toilets. Toilets in restaurants are always decent, and always SUPER clean in the shopping malls, thanks to the old employees who have nothing else to do than cleaning them every five minutes.

2. It is forbidden to smoke in shopping malls and subway stations. It leaves bars, clubs and restaurants that are not inside a shopping mall. I agree that it's not very convenient though.

3. People spit quite often, almost always outside or in trash bins. Not glamorous, right.

4. Ok, not as safe as your hometown.

5. No scammers at all.

5. I eat street food every day, I have never ever been ill even once in more than one year in China because of the food. When I went to Morrocco I lost 8 kilos in 3 weeks, went to several doctors and even spent a night at the hospital because I couldnt even drink a sip of water anymore.

6. Happens, I didnt feel it was that common.

7. Ok, you complained in number 5, you complain again. If you are a tourist doing tourist things, what do you expect ?

 

Try to study a dialect of your own country, you wont see much cultural differences with your hometown, it will suit you better.

[NotChinese]

The premise of this thread is hilarious.

 

It basically says, "Why is this country, on the other side of the world, which is inhabited by 1/6th of the world's population, which I only visited for 9 days, not the same as my safe little hometown with all the home comforts I'm used to?"

 

Jeezus F-ing christ, grow up  . 

[i__forget]

Are you guys still posting here? Get over it, those were my impressions after visiting China for the first time. In fact, some of these observations are even included in a book called "A trip to China" by the Princeton University Press, written by Chinese people, which I really want to read as soon as possible. 

[陳德聰]

They’re just not particularly useful or interesting observations, I guess. Hope they’re heavily edited for the book.

[DavyJonesLocker]

@NotChinese

@i__forget

 

I quite like the ops post and think people shouldn't disregard  his opinions. We should encouraged balanced views. His views on China are certainly not in the minority and nothing I haven't heard many many times before.. If fact most of  my foreign friends have a dislike for China. The forum naturally being called "Chinese forums" will attract bias views as one wouldn't care to sign up if one disliked the country or culture ;)

[edelweis]

I find the OP's viewpoint interesting. I also find the OP's tone somewhat confrontational.

 

I do find the OP's expectations rather unrealistic - not about the trip to China, but about forum behavior.

When someone writes a rant/criticizing post, they might expect some people to rant/criticize in response. That's human nature.

Just like the OP was disappointed by China and felt the need to express this disappointment,

some forum members were disappointed that someone did not like China, and felt the need to express this disappointment.

 

Also, when someone creates a thread, they can't expect people to stop posting in it just because.

 

[i__forget]

4 hours ago, 陳德聰 said:

Hope they’re heavily edited for the book.

I'm not sure what you mean, there's a chapter about toilet paper from what I've seen. (https://www.amazon.co.uk/Trip-China-Intermediate-Princeton-Language/dp/0691153094 table of contents)

 

3 hours ago, edelweis said:

I also find the OP's tone somewhat confrontational.

To be honest I didn't want to be confrontational, I mean most people here are non-Chinese learning chinese, why would I confront them about how China works. But even from a Chinese person I can't blame them individually because I didn't like the toilet in KFC. Having said this I genuinely asked myself, while in China, what's the part of the Chinese culture to like, based on my observations and without being able to speak the language, from a foreigner's point of view. We of course addressed this question in this thread.

[Bigdumogre]

Interesting thread to read and the discussion should continue. It’s a solid topic. 

Persoanlly what you dislike is what I like and don’t mind but have only been too 6 provinces in China. 

Plus the spitting concern - come to New York and you will see plenty of people spitting and shooting snot rockets all the time. 

[amytheorangutan]

I think all of the complaints you have are public knowledge. I definitely don't disagree with most of your complaints. I know many Chinese both outside and inside the country (including myself) who acknowledge these problems and wish to improve (My aunt and mum do this by telling off one Chinese at a time ). Unfortunately, trying to turn around the long time habits of 1.3 billion people can't be easily done in a decade or so, especially when large number of the population are still struggling to fulfil their basic needs. However, I'm quite positive that it will improve with time.

 

I think people reacted a bit negatively to your complaints because they are fairly obvious and people expected you to already researched about these things before you went, especially if the person is already learning Chinese and actively participating in Chinese forum. Most people who participate in this forum would be people who have invested a bit of their time learning about China and therefore would have gone to China and like China despite all the negative things you mentioned because they found other positives that they think make it worthwhile. 

 

I personally started learning Chinese because of the rich ancient history, literature, philosophy, food and drinks, the writing system. Oh... and because it's my heritage 

 

I hope you don't give up but language is a long term investment and it is very hard to learn a language without being interested in the cultural side of it.

[DavyJonesLocker]

I think the op post was one of the most honest I have seen in a long time. My wechat is full of foreigners who really dislike the place, the people, the food etc. Never have anything good to say about China 

I disagree with them and like China but it's a common view nonetheless amongst foreigners in China  so needs to be recognized. The ops post brings balance to the forum. 

[AaronUK]

16 minutes ago, DavyJonesLocker said:

I think the op post was one of the most honest I have seen in a long time. My wechat is full of foreigners who really dislike the place, the people, the food etc. Never have anything good to say about China 

I disagree with them and like China but it's a common view nonetheless amongst foreigners in China  so needs to be recognized. The ops post brings balance to the forum. 

 

I think that it is genuine response to culture shock and i understand all those contacts you have who dislike it.

 

However, I have to wonder why they end up in China for a long period if they weren't prepared for it-- if someone does research before then although they might dislike a lot of things they shouldn't be in complete surprise, if they are suprised/shocked then its kind of their own fault for lack of preparation--  I say this because if I go to china long term, I have in the back of my head there is a risk I could really not get on, but well, that's a risk I choose to accept if I go.

 

I think the world had enough of western colonization, so I should either take a place and culture as it is or I should go back home.

 

For unprepared people just in China for a short period of time then maybe that is just character building for them. They will learn to research or weigh up the risks and prepare better for future.

 

Not to criticise the OP, at least they tried it. A lot of people wouldn't have guts to get that far. I experienced these points when I went to china for a short trip, I was kind of anticipating them due to reading about other peoples experiences so I was able to look past them and focus on the good.

[Lu]

1 hour ago, DavyJonesLocker said:

My wechat is full of foreigners who really dislike the place, the people, the food etc. Never have anything good to say about China 

Honestly I think that if you can't love China somehow, it's better not to live there. You don't have to love every aspect of it, but you need to love it underneath the compaints. China has all kinds of flaws, but nobody is forcing you (general foreign you) to be there, so you are there because you want to be. And since you are there because you want to be, embrace your choice.

[Shelley]

I think you (general you) need to remember that it is like that where ever you go. Everywhere has some good and some bad. Remember the reason you went there in the first place, enjoy the good bits and try and live with the bad bits.

 

Take the best and leave the rest.

 

[DavyJonesLocker]

The people I know are here for jobs etc. 

Some people are just closed minded to new experiences and perhaps don't know how to glide past the things they find off putting. 

I was the same at the start, I really began to dislike china but I found the more I integrated myself into Chinese way of life the more I began to like it. I don't mean wanting to take up 书法，武术 , 茶艺, 京剧etc To be honest I find these things dull as watching paint dry . Lol

However being able to use apps to buy things, using the rent a bikes, being able to hire a car, making Chinese friends, road trips playing drinking games over dinner, is more fun.etc.

 

I do find it off putting that some foreigners really "drink the coolade" when it comes to extolling the virtues about China. For example famous parks like 备好公关，日坛公园 which are on tourist maps are basically crap. They don't even compared to Japan or Korea. I found the world famous lake in 杭州 also completely average. However they are a lot better places that go unnoticed  like Kunming qinghuandao etc 

 

[DavyJonesLocker]

30 minutes ago, Lu said:

Honestly I think that if you can't love China somehow, it's better not to live there. You don't have to love every aspect of it, but you need to love it underneath the compaints. China has all kinds of flaws, but nobody is forcing you (general foreign you) to be there, so you are there because you want to be. And since you are there because you want to be, embrace your choice.

 

Fully agree Lu. 

 

You do see it in Europe too though. People emigrated to a country and in decades made no effort to integrate